ESRs and Default Courses under WHS

[mikejohnchapman]

For those of you who have access to the England Golf WHS Platform.

I was looking at the playing records for some of our members and a couple of things came to light.

The first was I couldn't see how ESR were handled as part of the transition. I asked EG and they confirmed ESRs were not included in the transition and needed to be added post 2/11.

The other was that several rounds had "Tournament Round" in the course description with a CR of 72 and a slope of 125. These were default entries where the course couldn't be identified and a lot appeared to relate to county events. You can change these using the edit facility in the platform and select the correct course which obviously impact the calculated HI. Even if these are left after transition I am assuming players will want them corrected.

The above plus CSS and the derived HIs appear to be to slide rule accuracy!

 

[Swango1980]

For those of you who have access to the England Golf WHS Platform.

I was looking at the playing records for some of our members and a couple of things came to light.

The first was I couldn't see how ESR were handled as part of the transition. I asked EG and they confirmed ESRs were not included in the transition and needed to be added post 2/11.

The other was that several rounds had "Tournament Round" in the course description with a CR of 72 and a slope of 125. These were default entries where the course couldn't be identified and a lot appeared to relate to county events. You can change these using the edit facility in the platform and select the correct course which obviously impact the calculated HI. Even if these are left after transition I am assuming players will want them corrected.

The above plus CSS and the derived HIs appear to be to slide rule accuracy!

I just hope WHS send out a bullet point list to club committees as to the key things that may need to review.

Going through every single member to compare their new COURSE handicap to their CONGU handicap is not really feasible. Not just because of the number of golfers, but the fact that I started it. I'm only to the letter E alphabetically. Of the 78 golfers, 54 golfers will have a course handicap at least 2 shots higher or lower than their CONGU handicap (mostly higher). 8 will have course handicaps at least 5 shots higher than Congu (which is easier to focus on, and most of them are new golfers whose 3 scores were not carried to WHS). One guy has a course handicap 11.5 higher than CONGU. He has entered a few scores this year, but he was a new member just after lockdown, so this suggests one of his 3 initial cards was a lot better than what he has done since.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I just hope WHS send out a bullet point list to club committees as to the key things that may need to review.

Going through every single member to compare their new COURSE handicap to their CONGU handicap is not really feasible. Not just because of the number of golfers, but the fact that I started it. I'm only to the letter E alphabetically. Of the 78 golfers, 54 golfers will have a course handicap at least 2 shots higher or lower than their CONGU handicap (mostly higher). 8 will have course handicaps at least 5 shots higher than Congu (which is easier to focus on, and most of them are new golfers whose 3 scores were not carried to WHS). One guy has a course handicap 11.5 higher than CONGU. He has entered a few scores this year, but he was a new member just after lockdown, so this suggests one of his 3 initial cards was a lot better than what he has done since.

You live in hope my friend.

 

[Foxholer]

Surely, ESRs are irrelevant to WHS. The round would simply be included as one of the 'best 8 of last 20' where appropriate.
And likely to puzzle some folk when it drops off, triggering an increase even if the latest round is 'one of the best 8' (but not as good as the one that triggered the ESR.

 

[jim8flog]

Going through every single member to compare their new COURSE handicap to their CONGU handicap is not really feasible.

Totally agree. We have nearly 800 members.

I reckon on only going through those that query it.

I am officially no longer the chair for the handicap committee it will be someone else's decision about what we do. Although as part of the committee I still expect to be involved somehow.

 

[jim8flog]

Surely, ESRs are irrelevant to WHS. The round would simply be included as one of the 'best 8 of last 20' where appropriate.
And likely to puzzle some folk when it drops off, triggering an increase even if the latest round is 'one of the best 8' (but not as good as the one that triggered the ESR.

ESRs are still in the WHS but the score which triggers it has gone up to 7 better than HI

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Surely, ESRs are irrelevant to WHS. The round would simply be included as one of the 'best 8 of last 20' where appropriate.
And likely to puzzle some folk when it drops off, triggering an increase even if the latest round is 'one of the best 8' (but not as good as the one that triggered the ESR.

You raise an interesting point.

ESRs are part of the new system as are general play adjustments - presumably to ensure the current HI reflects their ability.

We have several players who recently we reduced by between 2 and 0.5 handicap shots reflecting ESRs. If we ignore this and just let it run then the derived HI will be higher than it would be if this was taken into account. Surely if ESRs were relevant before then they will be as part of the transition.

BTW EG have confirmed this will apply to all ESRs within the playing record of the player - ie the last 20 scores. So if an ESR was applied before that it is ignored.

 

[Old Skier]

I reckon on only going through those that query it.

Will be my initial strategy, involving to many hours already.

 

[nickjdavis]

I just hope WHS send out a bullet point list to club committees as to the key things that may need to review.

Going through every single member to compare their new COURSE handicap to their CONGU handicap is not really feasible. Not just because of the number of golfers, but the fact that I started it. I'm only to the letter E alphabetically. Of the 78 golfers, 54 golfers will have a course handicap at least 2 shots higher or lower than their CONGU handicap (mostly higher). 8 will have course handicaps at least 5 shots higher than Congu (which is easier to focus on, and most of them are new golfers whose 3 scores were not carried to WHS). One guy has a course handicap 11.5 higher than CONGU. He has entered a few scores this year, but he was a new member just after lockdown, so this suggests one of his 3 initial cards was a lot better than what he has done since.

In terms of absolute differences we've got a guy who's WHS is 14.4 higher than his Congu (18.5 to 32.9). Just like your player, he was a relatively new member who's 3 scores that the WHS hold are far worse than the 3 scores he put in for original handicap. Another who is 9.5 lower. 40 odd players have a difference of between 3 and 8 shots either way.

We were going to start reviewing them to understand why this was the case, but given that a lot of these players will have played between 2 and 5 comps in October which will hopefully smooth their handicaps out a bit we are now going to wait until November the 2nd before reviewing the changes and understanding why they have happened. A lot of them are purely due to the low number of scores that new members have submitted and the fact that their first three scores for initial handicap under Congu appear to have been ignored by the WHS. We live in hope that the WHS somehow includes the three initial scores on 2nd November.

 

[Ethan]

You raise an interesting point.

ESRs are part of the new system as are general play adjustments - presumably to ensure the current HI reflects their ability.

We have several players who recently we reduced by between 2 and 0.5 handicap shots reflecting ESRs. If we ignore this and just let it run then the derived HI will be higher than it would be if this was taken into account. Surely if ESRs were relevant before then they will be as part of the transition.

BTW EG have confirmed this will apply to all ESRs within the playing record of the player - ie the last 20 scores. So if an ESR was applied before that it is ignored.

I made a similar point about ESRs previously. They are a fix to the slower change of CONGU handicaps for fast improving golfers or those who have discovered the secret of the game in mid-career. Because WHS is much more (?too) responsive to recent play, I am not sure they are needed. Setting aside soft and hard caps, you could completely change your handicap every 20 rounds.

 

[patricks148]

Scotland doesn't have ESR anyway, but i'd have thought when WHS is in there won't be one ?

 

[rulefan]

Scotland doesn't have ESR anyway, but i'd have thought

Do you mean when in WHS?

 

[patricks148]

Do you mean when in WHS?

scotland doesn't have ESR now and hasn't had since they came in

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Scotland doesn't have ESR anyway, but i'd have thought when WHS is in there won't be one ?

They are still there under WHS, albeit for rounds of -7 or -10 (1 or 2 shot adjustments) gross differentials.

Mainly for very new players off very high handicaps I would think.

 

[HampshireHog]

I’m fairly sure that’s what makes my round differentials go all weird fairly sure it’s a bug in the current calcs.