Equal playing rights

[FairwayDodger]

Realistically are clubs going to block tee times for Working ladies to play on Saturdays when they might only have a hand full of ladies?

My own club for instance block Tuesday evening 5-7 for the ladies medal, you would be luck if 2 or 3 played in the at slot and some times none.

Its not a problem at Mine we only have 2 or 3 medals a month and only the bigger comps are drawn so anyone cab book a time and play on Saturday and Sunday.

No, no point booking out a block that isn't going to be used. But if they block Saturday out for men why would women who work during the week join?

JamesR's club's plan seems like the best and fairest solution.

 

[patricks148]

No, no point booking out a block that isn't going to be used. But if they block Saturday out for men why would women who work during the week join?

JamesR's club's plan seems like the best and fairest solution.

we dont block out Saturdays even when there is a silver Trophy on there are times after. but i don't think that has made any difference in encouraging women to take up golf.

I think its the same across many traditional sports, women on the whole are not interested in competitive sports. if you go to any sports center after work it will be packed with women doing aerobics and Zumba, maybe someone should invent Zumba Golf

 

[bladeplayer]

At my old club it worked as three separate competitions on the same day (men's, women's, juniors').
Equal access to the course just different pages to sign in, enter scores etc on the computer.

It worked quite well, although it wasn't the busiest of courses.

We have this, ladies day is Thursday with times on Sat aswell.. 2 sections on the computer for signing in & score recording , works well

 

[Deleted member 15344]

We have starting from this month mixed medals/stablefords with men and ladies having their own board comps

 

[FairwayDodger]

we dont block out Saturdays even when there is a silver Trophy on there are times after. but i don't think that has made any difference in encouraging women to take up golf.

I think its the same across many traditional sports, women on the whole are not interested in competitive sports. if you go to any sports center after work it will be packed with women doing aerobics and Zumba, maybe someone should invent Zumba Golf

As I said, it's not the answer, just the first step, the bare minimum needed. If there isn't the opportunity for them to play, you fall at the first hurdle.

And if your first bookable Saturday time is 4pm (just an example, I have no idea the size of the block at Nairn) after the comp has finished it's effectively the same as booking the whole day.

 

[AmandaJR]

Our club is quite good at getting the balance right. Seniors Section is men only (which sometimes causes a ruffle or two!) but they have a reserved block on Mon and Fri - think it's 7.30 to 9.00 or something. Ladies have a reserved block on a Tuesday from 9.00 to 10.30 and if it's a medal or stableford then there is a block booking for the following Saturday for those that can't play Tuesday. Usually that's 3-4 slots only and if they're not taken they're handed back to the pro shop. There is a monthly medal for the men which is a big booking - 9.00 to 12.00 or so and also a men's comp every Wed which is book your own tee time. Think they're may be a non drawn weekend medal for men too but not sure. Many of the Captain's Comps are mixed throughout the year and when we joined we checked the diary and there were 51 mixed comps at weekends which was a big factor in our joining.

Overall it feels like a club that is inclusive and appreciates female golfers. There's the exception to the rule, as everywhere, but I just ignore them and avoid playing golf with them!

 

[patricks148]

As I said, it's not the answer, just the first step, the bare minimum needed. If there isn't the opportunity for them to play, you fall at the first hurdle.

And if your first bookable Saturday time is 4pm (just an example, I have no idea the size of the block at Nairn) after the comp has finished it's effectively the same as booking the whole day.

more like 1 or 2 PM.

the Only thing thats the whole day is the King Trophy which is a single fig only open off the blue and that excludes most of the club from playing that day not just Women, plus the ladies have 2 opens where the whole day is booked out to mens 1

 

[FairwayDodger]

more like 1 or 2 PM.

the Only thing thats the whole day is the King Trophy which is a single fig only open off the blue and that excludes most of the club from playing that day not just Women, plus the ladies have 2 opens where the whole day is booked out to mens 1

Not really trying to argue on this and certainly not wanting to criticise any individual club. It's just that often where things appear equal the practicalities mean that it's not really. And, conversely, some things that appear lopsided on the face of it actually don't make any significant difference.

For example, I know from trying to find opens to play in that a lot of clubs have a women's open during the week but their men's open is on a saturday. And, in my opinion, a Saturday is worth infinitely more than a midweek day. But that's a difficult subject because entry in women's opens seems to be in terminal decline so clubs are trying lots of things to get more players. That's a whole other thread!

 

[patricks148]

Not really trying to argue on this and certainly not wanting to criticise any individual club. It's just that often where things appear equal the practicalities mean that it's not really. And, conversely, some things that appear lopsided on the face of it actually don't make any significant difference.

For example, I know from trying to find opens to play in that a lot of clubs have a women's open during the week but their men's open is on a saturday. And, in my opinion, a Saturday is worth infinitely more than a midweek day. But that's a difficult subject because entry in women's opens seems to be in terminal decline so clubs are trying lots of things to get more players. That's a whole other thread!

our ladies Opens are both on a Saturday

 

[FairwayDodger]

our ladies Opens are both on a Saturday

I know

I'm really not picking on Nairn!

 

[patricks148]

I know

I'm really not picking on Nairn!

But I know where you are coming from

 

[SGC001]

My question is really what is the situation if the ladies and me agree by democratic vote that they would like exclusive rights to the course on certain days / times and reach a compromise.

Google egu equality act and look at the guidance notes and downloads. It answers that question iirc.

 

[duncan mackie]

My question is really what is the situation if the ladies and me agree by democratic vote that they would like exclusive rights to the course on certain days / times and reach a compromise.

The really simple answer to this direct question is that you can't - and men can't either.
Sex is a protected charecteristic under the Act and you cannot have general rules that discriminate on that basis.

Most clubs run mens and ladies competitions and it is not discrimination to do so - however if the men's ones were of a scale that was inappropriate to the wider obligations of the club membership eg represented a significantly greater proportion of a particular time slot than male membership numbers, it would be in breach of the Act.
exactly the same considerations apply the other way round.
In practice the general competition schedules (mens and ladies) of most clubs comply through being a reasonable practice to meet a legitimate aim. Barriers outside of the competition schedule are unlikely to comply with the Act at all - as are any restrictive membership categories that are not open to either sex.
Obviously not all clubs currently comply with letter of the Act (yet) let alone the spirit of it; some for what appear to be good reasons (ladies reduced fee/restricted access being the obvious one) and others will wriggle around under the legitimate aims banner for some time to come.

 

[gazr99]

Having not been a member of a club for a while, I didm't know this was a law and have never heard of it

Am even more confused, considering I played in four ball Saturday, with my Nan who is a member and two other who aren't members of the club, on the day of the men's monthly medal and have played many times on a Tuesday, without any issues.

 

[Foxholer]

There's no reason to book specific times for Men and Women in the Medals at all!

A Weekend Medal should be open to both Men and Women as should any Midweek one! Worked entirely satisfactorily at 2 clubs I played Medals at.

As for Ladies Day...that should be handled like Seniors Day(s). If there's any issue, then it should be restricted to am or pm and the other period allocated to Men.

 

[mcbroon]

We have men's and ladies' comps played simultaneously on weekends, and the ladies usually have the tee blocked out for an hour or so in the middle of the available men's times i.e. 11-12. There are other comps for the ladies on some weekdays but they're not restricted at the weekends (as far as I know).

Never heard anyone complain about it and it seems a pretty reasonable solution to me.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

There was a similar thread a while back, and I think I mentioned that the club members were asked about this and not having gender related booked times for comps and it was the women far more than the men who weren't happy with this and would rather have their comps mainly on a Tuesday (which is well supported) and a blocked time after the men's comp (either Saturday or Sunday depending on when it's played) which strangely never seems to have as many players in

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

In our monthly medals our ladies have a few early morning slots informally reserved for them. If the day before any slot only has two ladies down, a gent can stick his name in the spare slot - but might get asked to vacate if another lady comes along looking to play and he is happy - and can - move to another slot.

 

[TheJezster]

Why do there have to be separate slots? Why can't you just play with whoever you want to? Male/female comp or not? You're all playing the same course (different tees maybe) and each person can enter their respective comp or not if they so choose. Just swap cards over for those in their comps. Surely that's common sense and simple?

 

[USER1999]

Men's comp days are blocked out all day. Tee times go live at 7 two weeks before, and all tee times are gone by 7.02, including some times that won't get round before darkness. Rightly or wrongly, there is no space for ladies, or quite a few of the men either.
Ladies have a weekend comp on a different day, but due to fewer players the blocking out is less.