England Sporting Anthem

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Doon frae Troon

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On another thread I was labeled an 'England Hater' which is widely inaccurate.
I do get annoyed by the arrogance of some English sports fans though.

The cause of the comment was to do with England rugby players singing the British National Anthem before matches.
This obviously implies that they are representing Britain and not England.

The Commonwealth Games are due in Glasgow in 2014 and the singing of GSTQ by an English team would be totally inappropriate. At the 2010 Games the England team adopted Jerusalem as their anthem.

Is it not time that England rugby sorted it's sporting house out and choose a more appropriate tune. [Not swing low!!]
 
There is no English anthem. It's not that long ago (in real terms) that Scotland and Wales had GSTQ played before fixtures, both rugby and football. The only way to deal with the booing was to allow them both to claim a song as a national anthem and use that instead.
 
I didn't label you an "England Hater". It was a joke comment, hence the ;) smilie at the end of it. However, judging by the tone of the posts on the other thread and this one, I would suggest that you need to HTFU and get over your general disdain of "English sports fans". I thought making negative stereotypes of other nationalities wasn't allowed? Maybe we should start quoting Jim Davidson jokes just to get us all in the mood......
 
Traditionally the national anthem is sung before a match, so the counter point is that Wales and Scotland should sing GSTQ as well.

edit: Too late.
 
I merely questioned your motives, i did originally think you were questioning me on the origins of GSTQ, hence my initial reply, it was too easy for me to assume otherwise, so apologies if I offended you, I did feel you were heading toward a national rugby debate...

It is an interesting point you make though, Wales and Scotland in Rugby terms at least have their own "anthem" do you class flower of Scotland as a national anthem? (i genuinely don't know, i am not taking the mickey)

Jerusalem is a mainstay at Twickers, but I dont feel that should be our National Anthem.. Why don't Scotland and Wales (am not getting into the NI, Ireland rugby debate) sing GSTQ too??
 
Wont get in to the politics of it as it doesnt bother me in the least .. few years ago this came up in a conversation re Irelands Call & the Irish national anthem ,

I asked was GSTQ the Anthem of England or Great Britian ? (was a genuine question by the way) I was told GB , so the the old fool here asks why dont Eng , Sco & Wales ALL use it then or why have the Welsh & the Scots got their own , debate got heated but I got no answer .

From our own point of view if Ireland Call was needed in the first place then for the very reason it was needed it should be the only one used ,

From a totaly personal point of view i think sport and politics should be kept as far away from each other as they possibly can ,, end of oh & Scotlands anthem has to be the coolest in the world :thup:
 
I'm English and my National Anthem is God Save The Queen...end of. So that's what I expect to be sung if it's an England game and the National Anthem is called for (be it tradition or protocol). If it's a hymn that's called for then fine Jerusalem or if it's a patriotic song then Land of Hope & Glory...but it's not, it's the National Anthem and that is God Save The Queen. If the Welsh and Scots choose to sing something different then so be it but I see no reason why we should follow suit.
 
AmandaJR said:
I'm English and my National Anthem is God Save The Queen...end of. So that's what I expect to be sung if it's an England game and the National Anthem is called for (be it tradition or protocol). If it's a hymn that's called for then fine Jerusalem or if it's a patriotic song then Land of Hope & Glory...but it's not, it's the National Anthem and that is God Save The Queen. If the Welsh and Scots choose to sing something different then so be it but I see no reason why we should follow suit.
Click to expand...

Perfect reply. No more conversation needed......
 
@Amanda, spot on actually. Best post of the day. no messing, no mincing, say it how it is. :thup:

EDIT, Bluewolf beat me to it!
 
Doesn't really bother me however since its a terrible, stupid song but you're right it is the British rather than English national anthem. Mind you FOS is a painful, chippy dirge so I think Scotland and England should both change!
 
Quite like the idea of no anthems at all!

The SRU had to stop playing GSTQ due to the fans booing it. I think that started about 25 years ago. Combination of anti-royals and Scot Nats. Bear in mind that many Nats are pro Royalty. Ireland's Call is great and seems to help unite the two nations.
Not all Scots adore FoS. The old anthem used to be Scotland the Brave which many thought aggressive and dated.

The original GSTQ had a line about General Wade crushing the rebellious Scots [Highlanders] so it was never too popular in the first place.
 
Just to help those wanting clarification of the General Wade reference..

Historic additional verses

Around 1745, anti-Jacobitism sentiment was captured in a verse appended to the song, with a prayer for the success of Field Marshall George Wade's army then assembling at Newcastle Upon Tyne. These words attained some short-term use, although they did not appear in the published version in the October 1745 Gentleman's Magazine. This verse was first documented as an occasional addition to the original anthem by Richard Clark in 1822, and was also mentioned in a later article on the song, published by the Gentleman's Magazine in 1837. Therein, it is presented as an"additional verse... though being of temporary application only... stored in the memory of an old friend... who was born in the very year 1745, and was thus the associate of those who heard it first sung", the lyrics given being:
Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,May by thy mighty aid,Victory bring.May he sedition hush,and like a torrent rush,Rebellious Scots to crush,God save the King.
The 1837 article and other sources make it clear that this verse was not used soon after 1745, and certainly before the song became accepted as the British national anthem in the 1780s and 1790s. It was included as an integral part of the song in the Oxford Book of Eighteenth Century Verse of 1926, although erroneously referencing the "fourth verse" to the Gentleman's Magazine article of 1745.
 
Last edited:
"REBELLIOUS SCOTS TO CRUSH" - COMPLETE NONSENSE



The British National anthem can be dated way back to the eighteenth century.

I often hear Nationalists say that the National anthem of the United Kingdom, “God Save the Queen/King” is “racist” or “Anti-Scottish”, which in short, is complete nonsense.

‘God Save the King’ was originally a patriotic song first publically performed in London in 1745, which became to be known as the National anthem at the beginning of the nineteenth century.

The Anti-Jacobite sentiment was high in the latter half of the eighteenth century, that in 1745 the verse “Rebellious Scots to crush” was commonly sung along with the infamous lyrics of “God Save the King”.

“The source of this verse was a later article on the song, published by the Gentleman's Magazine in 1837. Therein, it is presented as an "additional verse... though being of temporary application only... stored in the memory of an old friend... who was born in the very year 1745, and was thus the associate of those who heard it first sung", the lyrics given being:

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King.”
- http://www.questia.com/library/416443/the-oxford-book-of-eighteenth-century-verse

“There is no authorised version of the National Anthem as the words are a matter of tradition. Additional verses have been added down the years, but these are rarely used.The words used today are those sung in 1745, substituting 'Queen' for 'King' where appropriate. On official occasions, only the first verse is usually sung.”
- http://www.royal.gov.uk/MonarchUK/Symbols/NationalAnthem.aspx


So to summarise, there has never been an “official” verse as such that has ever promoted an “Anti-Scottish” sentiment, it is mostly a nationalist myth that has gotten seriously mistaken over the years. The anthem of the United Kingdom itself, as stated above was first publically performed in 1745; the verse did not include “Rebellious Scots to crush”.

So, the next time you hear an misinformed Nationalist tell you that the United Kingdom anthem is somehow “offensive” or “Anti-Scottish”; be sure to put them in their place and sing our National anthem with pride!

Note to the more extreme nationalists of the population, the term rebellious Scots refers to those that were, the Jacobites, it does not imply that all Scots were rebellious.
 
God Save Our Queen is fine by me and a song I would never get fed up hearing.

Always makes the hair on my neck stand up on end, oh and I stand up when ever I hear it.
 
stevie_r said:
"REBELLIOUS SCOTS TO CRUSH" - COMPLETE NONSENSE



The British National anthem can be dated way back to the eighteenth century.

I often hear Nationalists say that the National anthem of the United Kingdom, “God Save the Queen/King” is “racist” or “Anti-Scottish”, which in short, is complete nonsense.

‘God Save the King’ was originally a patriotic song first publically performed in London in 1745, which became to be known as the National anthem at the beginning of the nineteenth century.

The Anti-Jacobite sentiment was high in the latter half of the eighteenth century, that in 1745 the verse “Rebellious Scots to crush” was commonly sung along with the infamous lyrics of “God Save the King”.

“The source of this verse was a later article on the song, published by the Gentleman's Magazine in 1837. Therein, it is presented as an "additional verse... though being of temporary application only... stored in the memory of an old friend... who was born in the very year 1745, and was thus the associate of those who heard it first sung", the lyrics given being:

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King.”
- http://www.questia.com/library/416443/the-oxford-book-of-eighteenth-century-verse

“There is no authorised version of the National Anthem as the words are a matter of tradition. Additional verses have been added down the years, but these are rarely used.The words used today are those sung in 1745, substituting 'Queen' for 'King' where appropriate. On official occasions, only the first verse is usually sung.”
- http://www.royal.gov.uk/MonarchUK/Symbols/NationalAnthem.aspx


So to summarise, there has never been an “official” verse as such that has ever promoted an “Anti-Scottish” sentiment, it is mostly a nationalist myth that has gotten seriously mistaken over the years. The anthem of the United Kingdom itself, as stated above was first publically performed in 1745; the verse did not include “Rebellious Scots to crush”.

So, the next time you hear an misinformed Nationalist tell you that the United Kingdom anthem is somehow “offensive” or “Anti-Scottish”; be sure to put them in their place and sing our National anthem with pride!

Note to the more extreme nationalists of the population, the term rebellious Scots refers to those that were, the Jacobites, it does not imply that all Scots were rebellious.
Click to expand...

As I said in my earlier post.
My ancestors being lowland Scots were probably fighting with Wade!!
 
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