Dropping?

[backwoodsman]

A couple of queries based on things i saw a the BMW PGA on Sunday.

a) ball is under a small bush and player takes relief for unplayable. He marks two club lengths sideways such that the marked point is pretty much exactly the same distance from the hole as is the original lie. (ie not nearer the hole, but the same). Player tries to drop ball at that point but misses. It lands slightly forward of marked point - ie it first strikes the course at a point nearer the hole than original lie.

Does it count as a drop? (The situation is not covered in the "when to redrop" section of 20/2) If it doesn't count as a legitimate drop, how many goes could the player have at trying to drop at the exact point? (Ps: I'm aware of the two drops then place for balls which roll - but that's for legit drops)


b) ball is unplayable and player takes a drop. Dropped ball strikes course within two C/L of original lie and NNTH than original. It rolls slightly forward but is still NNTH than original. Player picks up ball and redrops. It rolls forward (again NNTH) so player picks it up & places and plays his shot. I'd presume thats a breach of 18/2 - ball at rest moved by player?

 

[Colin L]

a) The ball must be dropped within 2 club lengths and not nearer the hole. [R28] If the ball strikes the course outside the two club lengths or nearer the hole, it was not a correct drop and should be redone. [R20-6]. R20-2c applies only if after a correct drop, the ball rolls into one of the positions listed. After a correct drop, it is the final position of the ball relative to its previous known or estimated position that matters, not the position of any marker you may have put down. There is no requirement to mark in the first place. That a ball rolls forwards of a marker is not relevant. All that matters is that it does not roll nearer the hole than its provious position.

b) I've run out of time to answer this fully, but yes it's a breach of R18-2

 

[backwoodsman]

a) The ball must be dropped within 2 club lengths and not nearer the hole. [R28] If the ball strikes the course outside the two club lengths or nearer the hole, it was not a correct drop and should be redone. [R20-6]. R20-2c applies only if after a correct drop, the ball rolls into one of the positions listed. After a correct drop, it is the final position of the ball relative to its previous known or estimated position that matters, not the position of any marker you may have put down. There is no requirement to mark in the first place. That a ball rolls forwards of a marker is not relevant. All that matters is that it does not roll nearer the hole than its provious position.

b) I've run out of time to answer this fully, but yes it's a breach of R18-2

Ta

So, in theory, a player can attempt to drop right at the extreme limit of distance and "just miss" as often as they like? And so keep going until they get one to sit nicely just inside the edge? (Or it bounces & rolls well into the permissible area)

 

[Old Skier]

Ta

So, in theory, a player can attempt to drop right at the extreme limit of distance and "just miss" as often as they like? And so keep going until they get one to sit nicely just inside the edge? (Or it bounces & rolls well into the permissible area)

Are you saying that they deliberately make an incorrect drop?

 

[backwoodsman]

No, not really,

But they could be trying to drop it so that it first lands on a very specific spot, very close to the extreme limit of where it would be permissible. And dropping from arms length at shoulder height can't be that accurate.

Reason for asking is as follows ...

Take relief from unplayable lie. Find the spot that is 2 club lengths minus 1 centimetre from original lie, and also just 1 cm further from hole than was the original. You are permitted to drop on that spot. Chances are though (about 50:50 I'd say) that ball could bounce forward - and even just a little bit would put it in re-drop territory. Do it twice and you get to place the ball - nice and gently as you can, no plugging, no rolling away into a nasty place etc. But trying to drop that accurately isn't easy and you could easily drop outside the permitted area.

Definitely a case of using rules to advantage with say a 50% chance of being able to place the ball when taking relief from unplayable. Not cheating by any means, but gamesmanship perhaps?

 

[rulie]

This "gaming" of the current drop procedure and Rules is one of the reasons for the changes proposed for dropping and relief in the draft 2019 Rules of golf.