Dropping the ball

[JollyRedDevil]

Hi,

I was playing in a cup match today and my FC hit his tee shot into a thick bush on the side of the fairway. This bush/tree is not marked in any way or form. He found his ball in the middle of the "jungle". He then declared his ball unplayable and said he could go back as far a he wants, in the line of entry, and dropped his ball which was behind the tree and on the fairway and took his shot.
I am pretty sure that you have to either play the ball as it lies or drop it within 2 club length no nearer the hold with a one shot penalty. In this case 2 club lengths would still have left him withing the bush.
This was a stableford comp. I did not pursue the matter any further as he blobbed the hole anyway.

 

[duncan mackie]

You options are 2 club lengths, return to where precious shot played or back as far as you like keeping the point the ball was between you and the hole.

What you describe is a frequent misunderstanding and wrong.

 

[JollyRedDevil]

Ok, so he was right.
In that case what is the point of 2 club length rule, if you can go back as far as you like keeping the ball between you and the hole.

 

[Imurg]

Going back may give you a more difficult shot than dropping 2 club lengths away.
That could get you clear and on the fairway whereas dropping back may leave you in rough, behind trees etc...
Choose carefully because it can make a huge difference to the difficulty of the next shot..

 

[JollyRedDevil]

Ok thanks.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Ok, so he was right.
In that case what is the point of 2 club length rule, if you can go back as far as you like keeping the ball between you and the hole.

I don't think he was right, Duncan has put, it's back as far as you like keeping the point the ball WAS between you and the hole.

NOT the point of entry.

 

[duncan mackie]

I don't think he was right, Duncan has put, it's back as far as you like keeping the point the ball WAS between you and the hole.

NOT the point of entry.

Cheers Paul - exactly that.

As originally presented the player dropped back as far as he chose on his line of entry, which is not an option (but one that frequently crops up!)

 

[JollyRedDevil]

I understand now. He would have had to go back a long way as the tree in question is quite a tall tree.
Thanks for the clarification gents.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Cheers Paul - exactly that.

As originally presented the player dropped back as far as he chose on his line of entry, which is not an option (but one that frequently crops up!)

OP - how did your FC determine his line of entry? Point of entry is clear - but line?

 

[JollyRedDevil]

Basically he went back on the line where the ball was and the tee and as the tree is to the left of the fairway, it meant it was no longer in his way and he had a clear view of the green. Ok, it was a par 5 and the green a long way away but he could hit it onto the fairway.

 

[rulefan]

Basically he went back on the line where the ball was and the tee and as the tree is to the left of the fairway, it meant it was no longer in his way and he had a clear view of the green. Ok, it was a par 5 and the green a long way away but he could hit it onto the fairway.

So not 'the line of entry' then but "behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped".

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Basically he went back on the line where the ball was and the tee and as the tree is to the left of the fairway, it meant it was no longer in his way and he had a clear view of the green. Ok, it was a par 5 and the green a long way away but he could hit it onto the fairway.

In challenging him (if in future the scenario arises or you are otherwise inclined) ask him what his line would be if his ball had hit a tree one side of the fairway and shot straight across the fairway into such a lie behind another tree - can he drop in the middle of the fairway? Or if it had rebounded from a tree same side and ended up behind him in that lie. What would determine his line from where he hit it to point and line of entry be? He won't know - or know how to determine it. And so we go to the rule as written - general avoiding the infinite number of scenarios covering the places from where the ball is originally struck (in your FCs case - the tee) and what subsequently happens to it before it comes to rest.

 

[MadAdey]

Ok, so he was right.
In that case what is the point of 2 club length rule, if you can go back as far as you like keeping the ball between you and the hole.

In 3 different scenarios the 3 options available are all relevant.

Stuck in the middle of the bush and 2 club lengths does not get you out of the bushes, go back inline with the ball and you might get yourself clear of the trouble and have a clear shot.

Stuck behind a tree and going 2 club lengths to the side might get you a clear shot at the green.

Stuck in a bush, 2 club lengths does not get you out of it, going back inline might just put you into deeper into trouble and still leave you with no shot. So now the best option is to go back to where you played your last shot from.

 

[JollyRedDevil]

First time uploading an image so forgive me if it hasn't worked.
I found this on the R&A site. He went back and dropped on the solid line and not the dotted line.

 

[duncan mackie]

View attachment 20864
First time uploading an image so forgive me if it hasn't worked.
I found this on the R&A site. He went back and dropped on the solid line and not the dotted line.

Well done for uploading it.

As the wording there, and the responses you have above, all agree, the only part of the solid line that is valid is the bit within 2cl of the balls position.

 

[JollyRedDevil]

I forgot I had the R&A rules app on my phone and just checked and the exact same diagram is on there
You just feel a bit of a nerd taking the phone out, looking for a rule, in the middle of a comp. In fact, is it allowed?

 

[MadAdey]

Don't hold me to it, but I think it's ok. Or how else are you going to make a ruling on something if you can't use the book.

If it is against the rules then I've broke them loads of times 😳

 

[rulefan]

In fact, is it allowed?

Absolutely.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I forgot I had the R&A rules app on my phone and just checked and the exact same diagram is on there
You just feel a bit of a nerd taking the phone out, looking for a rule, in the middle of a comp. In fact, is it allowed?

As Rulefan has put, Absolutely, or the other option (which I've used after advice from here) if you're worried about holding up play, ask them to play 2 balls and get a decision after the game.

 

[Monkey Putter]

View attachment 20864
First time uploading an image so forgive me if it hasn't worked.
I found this on the R&A site. He went back and dropped on the solid line and not the dotted line.

Nice one, always have trouble remembering this one. Iv'e just printed this diagram off and will slip into my score card holder!