Driver loft - and changes?

[garyinderry]

Being interviewed on sky rory said he usually hits 3 degrees up but he's noticed his driving improves when he gets his number in the negative. On the event in question (think it was sawgrass) he was 0 to 1.5 down and was 1st in driving accuracy

Tour average is also 1.4 down (men's tour)

I was only pointing out that rory normally hits on the up.

He might hit down a touch on tight tracks but on the whole hes hitting well up on the ball.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

I am fairly neutral on AOA, normally 0-1 up. Play with a 9.5 driver, think turned up by 1 degree. When I played parkland, I used to have a HL driver 12 degrees(I think?) to maximise carry distance.

When I try to hit up more(to around 1-2 degrees), I tend to find I become more wayward, so other than winter parkland courses I do not do that. (with less run in winter, it helps to offset the waywardness but have more carry, so more distance overall)

 

[Robster59]

I have a Callaway XR16 which is 10.5° loft as standard but I found I was getting too much height, not a good thing on our course which can be prone to strong winds.
So I knocked it down 1° to 9.5°. For me it gave a stronger flight and, if anything, a little more consistency.
But it is very much an individual thing.

 

[Imurg]

Don't forget that for every 1°change of loft you move the face angle 2° open (-loft) or closed (+loft)
Which may benefit or hinder the end result.

 

[TheDoctor]

I have the Epic Flash Sub Zero 9° and have it turned down a degree, yet I still launch it higher than a friend of mine who has his 10.5° driver turned up a degree or so - All down to the fact that I have a positive AoA and he hs a negative one

Next time I have a lesson I will have a look at the numbers and see what they are (GCQuad) but I have recently seen driver carry numbers creeping up with the better swing I have got going right now and measured a drive at 305yd a couple weeks ago on my home course

 

[hovis]

I have the Epic Flash Sub Zero 9° and have it turned down a degree, yet I still launch it higher than a friend of mine who has his 10.5° driver turned up a degree or so - All down to the fact that I have a positive AoA and he hs a negative one

Next time I have a lesson I will have a look at the numbers and see what they are (GCQuad) but I have recently seen driver carry numbers creeping up with the better swing I have got going right now and measured a drive at 305yd a couple weeks ago on my home course

It's more than. Likely you have more dynamic loft at impact rather than AoA. It's very difficult to have a AoA that's steep enough to drastically effect launch angle as the ball is up in your stance. I'm not saying it's not possible but not the usual culprit

 

[harpo_72]

If you are interested read this
https://ping.com/en-us/blogs/proving-grounds/optimal-launch-and-spin

It pretty much gives you the options and you have a choice to maximise your ball speed and improve your launch conditions to get the best you can.

I got into this, my spin rates were down in the low 1500s my head speed was 90 mph my smash was 1.45 and my total carry was 215 at best .. the ball was plummeting out the air. My AoA was -2 , I set my driver to 11.5 degrees giving me a launch of 9.5 degrees.. it got better but still dreadful. I didn’t miss fairways - but who gives a monkeys, I am playing longer irons everywhere.

So I knew I had a problem, I tried to hit up and got AoA to 0, which saw an improvement and a carry increase. But I wasn’t happy, I needed a stable platform to hit harder and I turned to single plane golf, the Todd Graves stuff explaining the Mo Norman swing. I started working on that, I think the key is the impact position at address and my arms and hands are clear of my body. My launch or AoA increased, I don’t know how much but my driver is set at 9 degrees now ( more oblique creates more ball speed). I use a ball that offers a little more driver spin ( titleist AVX is a no no ) . My efficiency is the same, my swing speed has jumped to an average of 95mph and 103mph if I am loose and relaxed .. so carry is anything from 235-265 ish . This means shorter irons are in play and the scoring has improved. Accuracy with the driver is okay, I have a few loose ones to the right due to an open face, my path varies from a few degrees in to out to around a degree out to in .. so that’s fine it’s the open face stuff that needs a bit of work - give me a shut driver and it will always be in play. I don’t know my current spin numbers by I would hazard a guess at 2500 ish and a good one 2700 ish ..

So have a lesson get some numbers and look at the table and then sweat what you got ... or just have a beer in the bar

 

[Foxholer]

So I think I understand the theory of why a 9 degree loft driver is harder to hit straighter / more pro / goes further, but how do different driver lofts play out in practice?

(I have 10.5 loft currently) Altering the loft to 11.5 or so produces more backspin and therefore less side spin, but would it be noticeably more forgiving (or wayward shots would be less penalising, as it spins less)?

What is your experience with playing around with driver loft, and why did you do this?

What lofts do the average High, Mid and Low handicapper hit with?
Thanks

While the concept of backspin and sidespin is simple to understand, it's a total fallacy!
The reality is spin angle - which can be conceptualised as having backspin and sidespin elements. In reality, it's backspin and spin angle (Left or right).
However....The more 'backspin' compared to 'sidespin' (i.e. the straighter the hit!) the straighter the shot will be.
As you stated, increasing the loft reduces the relative 'sidespin' (Spin angle) because the backspin element is greater - with sidespin element 'unchanged'.

So I believe you should concentrate on reducing 'sidespin' (by practicing) and decide on loft according to the flight you want. I 'grew up' on links courses, so I've always used a low loft Driver and not 'smashed' it. My hockey background has always encouraged a moderate fade - that I simply live with!

 

[Foxholer]

If you are interested read this
https://ping.com/en-us/blogs/proving-grounds/optimal-launch-and-spin

It pretty much gives you the options and you have a choice to maximise your ball speed and improve your launch conditions to get the best you can.

I got into this, my spin rates were down in the low 1500s my head speed was 90 mph my smash was 1.45 and my total carry was 215 at best .. the ball was plummeting out the air. My AoA was -2 , I set my driver to 11.5 degrees giving me a launch of 9.5 degrees.. it got better but still dreadful. I didn’t miss fairways - but who gives a monkeys, I am playing longer irons everywhere.

So I knew I had a problem, I tried to hit up and got AoA to 0, which saw an improvement and a carry increase. But I wasn’t happy, I needed a stable platform to hit harder and I turned to single plane golf, the Todd Graves stuff explaining the Mo Norman swing. I started working on that, I think the key is the impact position at address and my arms and hands are clear of my body. My launch or AoA increased, I don’t know how much but my driver is set at 9 degrees now ( more oblique creates more ball speed). I use a ball that offers a little more driver spin ( titleist AVX is a no no ) . My efficiency is the same, my swing speed has jumped to an average of 95mph and 103mph if I am loose and relaxed .. so carry is anything from 235-265 ish . This means shorter irons are in play and the scoring has improved. Accuracy with the driver is okay, I have a few loose ones to the right due to an open face, my path varies from a few degrees in to out to around a degree out to in .. so that’s fine it’s the open face stuff that needs a bit of work - give me a shut driver and it will always be in play. I don’t know my current spin numbers by I would hazard a guess at 2500 ish and a good one 2700 ish ..

So have a lesson get some numbers and look at the table and then sweat what you got ... or just have a beer in the bar

Have you tried a 'max height' tee?

 

[MrC]

There is no scientific evidence for my approach

However I have M4 driver. Standard loft 10.5’. In this setting I was losing the bell right and left and not even in the same post code of the fairway

I lofted it up to 11.25’ and all of sudden I am hitting 50% fairways with 40% of my misses are in the playable rough next to the right fairway. 10% still go off the planet (normally left)

I probably lose 10-20 yards

As I say it’s not science and I am pretty sure it’s a mental thing for me

But it works for me

 

[Imurg]

There is no scientific evidence for my approach

However I have M4 driver. Standard loft 10.5’. In this setting I was losing the bell right and left and not even in the same post code of the fairway

I lofted it up to 11.25’ and all of sudden I am hitting 50% fairways with 40% of my misses are in the playable rough next to the right fairway. 10% still go off the planet (normally left)

I probably lose 10-20 yards

As I say it’s not science and I am pretty sure it’s a mental thing for me

But it works for me

You've increased loft so you've increased backspin which stabilises the ball and reduces curvature.
Increasing backspin reduces the spin tilt that causes the ball to go left or right.
Downside is it can also reduce distance...but its straighter distance

 

[Foxholer]

There is no scientific evidence for my approach

However I have M4 driver. Standard loft 10.5’. In this setting I was losing the bell right and left and not even in the same post code of the fairway

I lofted it up to 11.25’ and all of sudden I am hitting 50% fairways with 40% of my misses are in the playable rough next to the right fairway. 10% still go off the planet (normally left)

I probably lose 10-20 yards

As I say it’s not science and I am pretty sure it’s a mental thing for me

But it works for me

Have you considered only swinging at 120%?

 

[harpo_72]

Have you tried a 'max height' tee?

Yeah tee height was also in the mix. The ball stuff is quite important as well, Mizuno fitter said try the pro vx and chrome soft x as well. I use the q star tour and chrome soft is okay with my set up so I think I am through the tunnel and out the other side

 

[MrC]

You've increased loft so you've increased backspin which stabilises the ball and reduces curvature.
Increasing backspin reduces the spin tilt that causes the ball to go left or right.
Downside is it can also reduce distance...but its straighter distance

Maybe there is a bit of science then ??

 

[MrC]

Have you considered only swinging at 120%?

I think that’s the other thing I actually do after lofting up in that I try and slow my swing down and swing at 90%

 

[clubchamp98]

I was only pointing out that rory normally hits on the up.

He might hit down a touch on tight tracks but on the whole hes hitting well up on the ball.

He must be good .
I have tried and failed to change my AOA.
tried to just get to neutral but hit big pushes and mad hooks for months.
Shows how good the pros are if they can do that at will.