Dougherty having a pop at Peter Alliss

[rgs]

Just read the article in the Daily Telegraph link on the main GM page about Dougherty being a bit put out by Peter Alliss commentary on Saturday. Fair play to Alliss he refused to back down-I agree with Alliss the modern pro has everything to his liking and they struggle when conditions are not pristine.
The viewer wants commentators to tell it as it is not to overhype the action. If the golf is poor i want the commentator to say so.

 

[John_Findlay]

Interesting article.

Dougherty getting a little precious methinks. He clearly doesn't have a clue about golf in Alliss's time. I took the game up 2 years before he was born for goodness sake. Dont argue with the big man, Nick. He's won more than you ever will, including the Spanish, Italian and Portuguese Opens in the space of 3 weeks, all by a mile, too.

I'm sorry but the guy's 25 years old and clearly been coached to death. Only got one game. Alliss had them all. I dare say Dougherty didn't pick the game up with natural ability playing with a 3 iron on the links. Boring target parkland golf probably. Not a clue. That's why he found Wentworth tough on Saturday. It had tuned into a linkish course for the day with hard bumpy non-receptive greens. The wee lamb wasn't used to it and couldn't adapt like the greats can.

 

[Nico]

Dougherty can talk about respect the day he plays in his ninth Ryder cup.

Allis was no great but he was damn good and his opinion deserves more respect than Nick "Hairstyle" Dougherty!

If Peter Allis didnt win,his kids didnt eat,nuff said.

 

[John_Findlay]

Good point, Nico. If it wasn't for the ludicrous amounts available to professionals for "losing" nowadays Nick would still be working in the pro shop to supplement his meagre income from winnings.

 

[OldWindy]

I'm definitely with Alliss on this - some very poor course management and lacklustre games out there on Saturday considering how good some of the pros appear to be. It's under these conditions I would hope to see the most creative and talented players maintain a good card...nuff said.

 

[nomadpaul]

I saw a quote not long ago saying that because there's so much money in golf , even for just making the cut , players are just content to finish somewhere on the leaderboard without risking shots and going for the win , and therefore the Kudos of a Champion tag.
Perhaps this 'settle for the £/$'s rather than a title' means that golfers aren't really bothered about mastering the intricacies of differing styles of golf.
It always seems to me , in my limited experience anyways , that the American PGA tour seems a target golf type of game , where the landing spot is most important whereas the European seems to offer a more varied challenge .

 

[EchtLoon]

I'm sorry but the guy's 25 years old and clearly been coached to death. Only got one game. Alliss had them all. I dare say Dougherty didn't pick the game up with natural ability playing with a 3 iron on the links. Boring target parkland golf probably. Not a clue. That's why he found Wentworth tough on Saturday. It had tuned into a linkish course for the day with hard bumpy non-receptive greens. The wee lamb wasn't used to it and couldn't adapt like the greats can.

Got to side with Alliss, but your comments are just as bad as Dougherty's - "Boring target parkland golf probably" - so you don't actually know, but you'll throw some slight the lads way?

I was under the impression he was a links bred player having been brought up in the Liverpool area; wasn't Hoylake a "home" game for him?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Alliss has been there, seen it and done it. If he hasn't done it you can bet his father had and he learnt from that experience. Basically it is a sad indictment of a modern pro who when things don't go well look for any form of excuse rather than shouldering blame and saying I played badly. Two notable exceptions to that are Clarke and Westwood who if they play like donkeys say so.

Dougherty so far has proved himself no better than an a lsightly above average journeyman pro. From memory I seem to recall him losing a number of times when he was in with a shout. It strikes me that he doesn't have the guile and the game to make the next jump up and become a regular contender.

To my mind Wentworth is one of the fairest courses on tour. It has been the same layout (bar the tweaks Els made) and all the players play there regulalrly (including practice and corporate events) and there are no tricks. The greens are generally smooth and not to quick by tour standards. The rough isn't too penal and most of the bunkers have been made redundant by modern technology. Basically the problem Dougherty had was controlling the ball in the breeze. If he can't do that through the trees in Surrey he will never be in contention for a British Open on a links course.

I played some 5 miles down the road on Saturday afternoon and I played pretty well given the 25 mph winds and the fact that I am a 14 handicapper strugling with a dodgy swing. I didn't throw my toys when the wind blew my ball offline. Get over yourself Dougherty and a) respect your peers b) sort your technique out and c) take responsibility

 

[Basher]

Professional golfers are always happy to receive the plaudits when they play well. They should also be man (or lady) enough to accept criticsm when they don't.

I like Dougherty as a player, my daughter thinks he's "well hot". He must learn to live with criticsm from a man of experience when he screws up.

Well said Mr Alliss. The guy says what he sees (could be good on Catchphrase!!!) and I think the public accept what he says as experienced observations.

 

[golfer1]

Dougherty didn't pick the game up with natural ability playing with a 3 iron on the links. Boring target parkland golf probably. Not a clue. That's why he found Wentworth tough on Saturday. It had tuned into a linkish course for the day with hard bumpy non-receptive greens. The wee lamb wasn't used to it and couldn't adapt like the greats can.

Just for the record, Nick Dougherty, first started playing golf on a municipal in Liverpool which had bone hard greens in the summer, and very often the bunkers weren't raked.

That said, Alliss is right the golf wasn't great. I managed to catch the last 45 minutes on Thursday, and only saw 2 players hit a fairway.

I know Nick is getting a bit of stick on the forum, and rightly so, but the article did say that there were several other players moaning about Peter Alliss comments, does anyone who they are?

 

[John_Findlay]

but your comments are just as bad as Dougherty's - "Boring target parkland golf probably" - so you don't actually know, but you'll throw some slight the lads way?

Oops. Retraction due. Just remembered he won the Dunhill Links last year. Sorry.

 

[USER1999]

Given that we don't all have access to links courses, and that not all park land courses are over watered target golf, I get a bit annoyed when those lucky enough to have access to links continually run down parkland courses as not being enough of a challenge.

Go play Woodhall spa, then say park is easy.

 

[Doh]

Go play Woodhall spa, then say park is easy.

[/QUOTE]

Played it a number of times but it's a Heathland course.

 

[toonarmy]

Dougherty so far has proved himself no better than an a lsightly above average journeyman pro.

A tad harsh on a young lad who has some impressive performances in recent Majors (USPGA, US Open, Masters).

 

[viscount17]

With far less wind the golf didn't sparkle on Thursday either (at least not for those I watched at the time I was watching). With some exceptions it was marked by wayward drives, poor club/shot selection - all in all, what made the difference between the pros and us was their ability to get out of trouble and save pars.

 

[DCB]

"If it wasn't for the ludicrous amounts available to professionals for "losing" nowadays Nick would still be working in the pro shop to supplement his meagre income from winnings."

The thing is John, in Peter Alliss heyday the pros worked in their shop serving the members, went off to play their competition and were back the next day behind the counter selling Dunlop 65s or whatever. They were still treated as second class citisens by many clubs.

Could you imagine many of the current young breed of golfer, selling ProV1s on Monday and Tuesday and then driving through the night to play a comp somewhewre then driving back after missing the cut and selling mars bars to an ungratefull membership on saturday morning. I don't think so.

I think Ian Poulter is the only one of the current breed of bigger names, who can put his hand up and say he knows what the other side of a pros life could be like. There are bound to be many in the lower reaches of the tour who have made the transition from club pro to tour player, they know what it is like and they fight tooth and nail to keep their tour card each year, they want to live the dream. I have more respect for that type of tour pro than some of the ones who have had it all on a plate.

 

[USER1999]

Ok, point taken about Woodhall being heathland (can't see a huge difference, but will accept there is one), but we are splitting hairs here. Not all inland (happy?) courses are easy, and conversly not all links are difficult. This links snobbery just annoys me. You can be a good golfer without learning on the links. Look at Tiger.

 

[John_Findlay]

Point taken, Murph, but if you look back I didn't say all parkland courses are boring (although as Doh pointed out the best are usually heathland which play entirely differently). They just require less shot-making ability in general from my experience and obviously Mr Alliss agrees that it was the lack of shot-making which let most of the pros at Wentworth down on Saturday. They were mostly hitting their normal high flying ball way above the tree line in blustery winds. Erm... engage brain. No wonder they couldn't hit a fairway or green. There's wind in the sky, guys. It blows things.

As for links snobbery, I'll admit I prefer links courses simply for the greater variety of shots you have to play (and the better views, turf, ability to play throughout the winter, etc, etc) Loch Lomond's quite nice, though

 

[Nico]

Some good points here chaps.

A serious lack of perspecive from the players methinks. Ever wondered why they stopped playing at St.Mellion? You try playing that "Easy Parkland" course in a wind!

BTW, Robert Rock is the only other tour player that I know was a club pro in the past.


Living as I do in Heathland central they are a perfect combination of Links and Parkland,unless they install fairway watering. West Hill is a good example,now it plays much more like Parkland all year round which is ok but you no longer have to manage your way round the course in the summer in case the ball runs into the heather.

 

[shanker]

Anyone who doesn't like parkland golf should try Moor Park in Herts. It's terrific. I also remember St. Pierre in Chepstow. Also a good test of golf. Does it still exist?
BTW I think there's a big difference between heathland and parkland courses. Not much heather and pine on the parkland variety.
In any case, isn't it one of the great things about golf that the courses vary so much? Augusta, Sunningdale, Carnoustie and Valderrama. They don't have much in common, do they?