The problem I have with that video is the lack of an inconsistent golf swing. If he'd got a 10 and 16 hcapper i suspect the results would be much different and that's where a consistent swinger can modify their swing to suit a given shaft.
Does the shaft make any difference???
- Thread starter NorfolkShaun
- Start date
hovis
Tour Winner
so are you saying that a suitable golf shaft benefits a person with an inconsistent golf swing more than some with a consistent one?
No I'm saying that it can be easy to show something with very consistent swings.
HankMarvin
Tour Rookie
Thought so. What was it he called you ?
Pea Shooter or Pop Gun, it escapes me at the moment.
But for an Old Boy he gets it out there even with his 3 wood
can't have been either of those...
Only person I know that has gained distance with the Epic.... tight fisted bugger doesn't like buying new clubs, only changed his ping eye two irons a couple of years ago and the driver and 3 wood this year from the 15 year old clubs he had before
D
Deleted member 23270
Guest
Of course a shaft can change the shot shape. Flex, loading, tempo, kick point etc all have an effect on how the clubface is presented to the ball. You seem to have lots of mates that are pros or fitters, ask them to explain a few basics to you.
hovis
Tour Winner
http://www.golfwrx.com/6419/tom-wis...ts-factual-info-about-shafts-to-help-you-all/
this bloke might know a thing or two
if you bothered to read the post properly you will see that i didn't say it cant effect shot shape. I'm saying that it cant change it to the extent that its changing hooks to draws and slices to fades.
its because i am friends with club fitters and club builders that i know how full of crap people are. i have lost count of how many people have been humbled by the counter evidence that is presented towards them about their misconceptions of shaft knowledge.
i always thought i would spin the Nutts off a ladies shaft until i was forced to try one and saw zero increase in spin
cant you explain how shaft loading, shaft kick and tempo can cause the shaft to present the clubface to the ball different enough to have a noticeable effect on shape ?
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D
Deleted member 23270
Guest
I did read your post and I replied to exactly the point above. A shaft can change a hook into a draw or a slice into a fade or vice versa. If you don't understand that then you really should spend a bit more time talking to your 'friends' and listening to what they have to say.
If they are telling you otherwise, why are they fitting people for clubs instead of letting them buy off the shelf?
hovis
Tour Winner
this is worth a watch. Two shafts on the kbs range that are opposed ends of the spectrum.
https://youtu.be/9OesA4ZxDlQ
https://youtu.be/9OesA4ZxDlQ
hovis
Tour Winner
money. that's why, money.
shafts do work. even if its only by a small Amount then why wouldn't you take that advantage if you can? it could make the difference between me finding a fairway bunker or first cut. its not going to stop me hooking one ob
i will ask again how can a shaft turn a hook into a draw. tom wishon and diamana have said that the highest movement they have ever seen is 7 degrees. and to do that they purposely put the worst possible shaft in a beast of a player.
please explain how a shaft can make a hook a draw?
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It's a very interesting debate particularly for me who has just been fitted for callaway irons as there is a set on ebay just now that are kbs tour V but I was fitted for kbs tour so my dilemma is buy new with the shaft I was fitted for or buy at half price 2nd hand with almost but not quite the shaft I was ftted for.
D
Deleted Member 1156
Guest
Have a look on Google, plenty of information on how golf shafts work. DaveR is right, different shaft characteristics affect how the clubface is presented to the ball which in turn affects spin rates, launch angles etc. That is how you can turn a hook into a draw and so on.
You are saying the shaft has no effect? So if I took an AP2 head I would get the same launch, spin, carry, rollout and dispersion regardless of which shaft was in it?
Wildrover
Tour Rookie
Just a few degrees difference will result in a visible difference in ball flight, nobody is claiming that a vicious slice will suddenly become a soft draw but you can minimise the damage. If somebody cuts across the ball then they will generally speaking always have a left to right flight (RH of course) but by putting them in a softer and possibly lighter shaft you can minimise this cut so they will hit it a bit further and a bit straighter, hit more fairways and generally enjoy the game more. More loft helps also when talking Drivers & Fairways etc. It all makes it slightly easier to square the face up. I see the results of this every day for myself. Of course this would reverse for someone who hits draw/hook. At the end of the day Trackman does not have feelings and does not lie, the data is all in front of you.
hovis
Tour Winner
JESUS CHRIST!!!!! for the hundredth time "i didn't say shaft has no effect" i mean seriously, are you reading what I'm saying or just seeing what you want?
shaft does have an effect. but it cant turn my little draw into a hook or vice versa. you can only get about 2 degrees of club face movement off a steel shaft. so if the face can only bend 2 degrees either way (according to tom wishon) then how can 2 degrees cause a hook.???????
maybe if you swinging 10 degrees into out but thats not the shaft. or if the added 2 degrees are on top of your already 2 degrees closed face. but again, thats you
as for lunch have a look at these two shafts that are polar opposite. shafts doesn't effort launch nowhere near as much as people think. one shaft is the highest launch they're do the other is the lowest. if shafts are like majic then why no difference?
https://youtu.be/9OesA4ZxDlQ
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LCW
Assistant Pro
My 2p on the shaft discussion.
If I present a face to path that is open 4/7/10/14 degrees (take your pick) due to grip, wrist angles, lie angle, general swing really no shaft in the world is going to sort that out. What will sort that out is a lesson with a PGA pro. If you think a shaft will help your slice into a fade and vica versa when you present drastic angles to the little white ball your dreaming and clutching at straws IMO. If you get the CG of the club over your hand path in the downswing for example your doomed using any club no matter what shaft/ how far the weight in the heel is etc etc.
How ever on the flip side I think if you can present some nice numbers on a fairly consistent basis and strike being the most important thing near the CG of the club then I think the shaft can have some effect depending on the person. I completely advocate a fitting in any club you buy but go in knowing that you as the golfer are "the engine" not some KBS Tour C-taper lite (other brands available) that you come out with. From my own opinion feel is the most important factor to me I am fairly youngish
and have some speed about me but I really dislike shafts that are super lite. You can be blinded by numbers sometimes as I found i launched the lighter shafts in my irons higher with more spin and longer but my dispersion was not as tight as I wanted both left and right. I gained this back somewhat with something like a Project X 6.0. Which when we are talking grams in weight not much different to some others I tried but to me felt like i could play on my actual golf course with. For woods again about optimizing spin and launch all depending on presenting some good numbers. If my angle of attack with a wood is 4 down and the strike is low heel no shaft will sort that out IMO get a lesson then get fitted or actually do both at the same time.
Just my opinions you may agree or not
ne:
If I present a face to path that is open 4/7/10/14 degrees (take your pick) due to grip, wrist angles, lie angle, general swing really no shaft in the world is going to sort that out. What will sort that out is a lesson with a PGA pro. If you think a shaft will help your slice into a fade and vica versa when you present drastic angles to the little white ball your dreaming and clutching at straws IMO. If you get the CG of the club over your hand path in the downswing for example your doomed using any club no matter what shaft/ how far the weight in the heel is etc etc.
How ever on the flip side I think if you can present some nice numbers on a fairly consistent basis and strike being the most important thing near the CG of the club then I think the shaft can have some effect depending on the person. I completely advocate a fitting in any club you buy but go in knowing that you as the golfer are "the engine" not some KBS Tour C-taper lite (other brands available) that you come out with. From my own opinion feel is the most important factor to me I am fairly youngish
and have some speed about me but I really dislike shafts that are super lite. You can be blinded by numbers sometimes as I found i launched the lighter shafts in my irons higher with more spin and longer but my dispersion was not as tight as I wanted both left and right. I gained this back somewhat with something like a Project X 6.0. Which when we are talking grams in weight not much different to some others I tried but to me felt like i could play on my actual golf course with. For woods again about optimizing spin and launch all depending on presenting some good numbers. If my angle of attack with a wood is 4 down and the strike is low heel no shaft will sort that out IMO get a lesson then get fitted or actually do both at the same time.Just my opinions you may agree or not
ne:hovis
Tour Winner
My 2p on the shaft discussion.
If I present a face to path that is open 4/7/10/14 degrees (take your pick) due to grip, wrist angles, lie angle, general swing really no shaft in the world is going to sort that out. What will sort that out is a lesson with a PGA pro. If you think a shaft will help your slice into a fade and vica versa when you present drastic angles to the little white ball your dreaming and clutching at straws IMO. If you get the CG of the club over your hand path in the downswing for example your doomed using any club no matter what shaft/ how far the weight in the heel is etc etc.
How ever on the flip side I think if you can present some nice numbers on a fairly consistent basis and strike being the most important thing near the CG of the club then I think the shaft can have some effect depending on the person. I completely advocate a fitting in any club you buy but go in knowing that you as the golfer are "the engine" not some KBS Tour C-taper lite (other brands available) that you come out with. From my own opinion feel is the most important factor to me I am fairly youngish
Just my opinions you may agree or not
id agree with everything you just wrote
D
Deleted member 23270
Guest
https://mygolfspy.com/mygolfspy-labs-shaft-torque/
This should help you understand the effect of different shaft characteristics.
You say that a shaft cannot turn a hook into a draw etc well I suggest you look at the dispersion figures in the above link.
hovis
Tour Winner
I've had a look at the dispersion chart. clearly the shaft is effecting the dispersion. didn't see any hooks or slices in that article though. golfer 1 was just hitting pushes. in fact he had that tendency with all 3 shafts bar the odd shot. all shots appear to be on the fairway\ light rough????
golfers 3 isn't hitting any hooks either???
again,, for the sixth time. I'm not saying that shafts can't influence shot shape. clearly it does. I'm saying shafts cant turn a good swing into a slice or bring a hook shot back from the dead and make it a draw
a hook or slice is a swing fault. period. no shafts is going to save or correct that shot
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SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
This is all well and good - but if I am trying to improve my swing then matching shaft to swing means I would have to keep changing the shaft. Nice trick then to hype up the value of the shaft.
Now if a pro said to me that the shaft I had on my driver is really one that will only suit ++ handicappers or pros - then I might change it. Or if I was told it was so old it was dead - or that it was of a design that even the cheaper modern shafts could better - then I might well change. Otherwise I view such things with a degree of hmmmm.
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Foxholer
Blackballed
It depends on what the swing changes are trying to achieve!
Generally, tweaking attributes of a swing is not going to alter 'most desirable' shaft, so unlikely to need iterations of shaft as swing changes! Possible exceptions could be if the awing change was in the area of the transition or to increase lag. A heavier shaft can help 'solve' issues in the transition if it's considered too quick - so if the transition is smoothed, a lighter shaft might end up providing a few more yards. Lower tourque shafts can help reduce dispersion issues if lag is increased. If it's merely increased swing speed that is desired, then a lighter shaft can help that!
But if it's 'correcting a fundamental fault', like a tendency to Reverse-Pivot or Early-extend, then it's highly unlikely that a shaft that works well (or badly) currently would work any differntly after the change.
