Does the shaft make any difference???

[Maninblack4612]

To me the shaft is the engine.

This must be one of the poorest analogies I've ever heard. An engine supplies power. The "engine" in a golf swing is the bloke on the end of the club. The shaft is the transmission, if anything, and, as the connection between the player & the ball, it is obviously very important.


The main problems caused by shafts is people using a shaft which is too stiff to provide any action on the ball from a slow swingspeed & /or too long to control. I wouldn't say that, for the average player, there is an ideal shaft but you must have one which generally suits you.

 

[the_coach]

the more anyone sprays the strike pattern all over the face the less a shaft will be of a whole bunch of assistance - but even generally some shafts will still help better than others

shafts re -spin rate tend with a center strike to affect the rpm's by around 500- 600 rpm max

it's the golfer that provides the forces & torques with the swing motion which the shaft then helps to get out to the club head with the best club head to ball speed efficiency at impact - shaft not 'the engine'

one of the biggest plusses for a shaft that works with a particular swing motion is providing 'feel' plus having a shaft profile that again works with a particular swing motion to more reliably place the cg of the club head 'behind' the ball

my take is everyone should be looking to get a fitting preferably by a specialist fitter even better if that also happens to be a teaching pro - but it really has to be on a launch monitor to be able to get proper data

folks should approach that fitting looking to swing whatever club with their 'stock' swing & not looking to swing straight out of their shoes searching for maximum distance

- it's a ways more important to look to get the best all-round launch conditions - so strike pattern/launch angle/AoA/dynamic loft/spin rate plus/ball speed etc. & being able to get the cg behind the ball with control of face angle & path
that's a ways more important than just looking as the greatest distance travelled

This is all well and good - but if I am trying to improve my swing then matching shaft to swing means I would have to keep changing the shaft. Nice trick then to hype up the value of the shaft.

Now if a pro said to me that the shaft I had on my driver is really one that will only suit ++ handicappers or pros - then I might change it. Or if I was told it was so old it was dead - or that it was of a design that even the cheaper modern shafts could better - then I might well change. Otherwise I view such things with a degree of hmmmm.

must admit to being a tad puzzled here if you have taken from my above post that it's 'hyping the value of a shaft'

the first line in original post is speaking to the primary importance of a center strike in order to get the best out of any shaft so it's down the individual golfers swing motion & a shaft to a certain extent can help or hinder (with a driver the clubhead is a ways more important than the shaft but that wasn't the theme of the OP)

& that a center strike with different shafts (particularly again with a driver) can affect the spin rate by only 500/600 rpm max - that's not a large amount at all
- & that's only at the approx max possible not an average many won't see that amount but again speaking to a center strike - not with a bunch of off center strikes

so the point was shafts can make a difference to spin rate but it's a marginal difference

always of foremost important is the individual swing motion itself & how that delivers the club to impact
to that shafts specs can be of help to work at optimum harmony with transition & how the individual stresses or loads said shaft in downswing to impact

- but any shaft won't be a 'cure all' in anyways to large issues with technical problems in a swing motion - but shafts can & do help with fine tuning launch conditions

the bigger difference shafts can make as said above in my post is to the 'feel' of someone swinging it - too heavy or too light or too stiff or kick points through the shaft profile being unsuitable to a particular swing motion will tend to give little confidence plus won't give help with the particular swing motion in getting the club head out to the ball in reasonable alignment at impact (again more relevant to a driver or 3 metal in particular but still applicable thru the bag)

majority of folks don't have any club fitting they buy off the shelf or online - better imo to get a fit

folks DNA of their individual swing patterns in terms of how they swing to stress a shaft with most players certainly club index players that doesn't change a bunch overtime as a generality once a physical maturity has been reached - it's not the effort or how the effort is put into the club so shaft that alters a whole bunch
- it's more a lack of refined technique that then does not give a tight strike location pattern on the face with control of face angle & low point that causes the issues week to week with shot outcomes & scores that folks experience - so definitely no need to have to change a shaft from week to week that's a good ways off the point entirely

neither was I saying folks 'have' to change their shafts in any post

 

[NorfolkShaun]

the bigger difference shafts can make as said above in my post is to the 'feel' of someone swinging it - too heavy or too light or too stiff or kick points through the shaft profile being unsuitable to a particular swing motion will tend to give little confidence plus won't give help with the particular swing motion in getting the club head out to the ball in reasonable alignment at impact (again more relevant to a driver or 3 metal in particular but still applicable thru the bag)

majority of folks don't have any club fitting they buy off the shelf or online - better imo to get a fit

Out of interest, and I sincerely hope to not take this out of context.

Fine tuning and fitting makes more difference with different clubs?

With a driver the margin for error is much narrower than with a wedge. (or am i wrong) therefore a driver fitting may be more complex and important that a wedge fitting other than gapping.

I was (kind of) fitted for my wedges but shafts never came into it just selecting the brand, gaping, bounce, length and lie.

My driver is basically off the shelf and I just hit some different clubs to find one that worked.

 

[the_coach]

Out of interest, and I sincerely hope to not take this out of context.

Fine tuning and fitting makes more difference with different clubs?

With a driver the margin for error is much narrower than with a wedge. (or am i wrong) therefore a driver fitting may be more complex and important that a wedge fitting other than gapping.

I was (kind of) fitted for my wedges but shafts never came into it just selecting the brand, gaping, bounce, length and lie.

My driver is basically off the shelf and I just hit some different clubs to find one that worked.

overall it's better to be fitted for all clubs if folks have that choice open to them - would be my take

would say overall the more the individual game is tied to competition & results/scores the more it would pay to have a real comprehensive fitting - as opposed to hitting a few different clubs & just goin by feel & visible ball flight - in the end it's just a personal choice how far someone wants to delve into it - if folks tend to play mostly recreational social golf then a total comprehensive fit ain't maybes so important depends on the persons concerned viewpoint & how they see it

not exactly sure what you mean by 'with a driver the margin for error is much narrower than with a wedge'
margin or error in relation to what ?

a fit for driver (metals/hybrids etc.) or irons or wedges are all just about producing the optimum launch conditions/ball data for whatever particular club with the individual swing motion - to do that to the best possible level it would need a fitting to get those launch conditions & ball data numbers quantified via launch monitor

are there different specialist wedge shafts ? - yep there's a certain range of options if you having clubs fitted by an independent specialist fitter or a pga pro that's not tied into just certain oem's

these specialist wedge shaft options may not be an option at every club outlet

- but there is nowhere near as many wedge shaft options that you'd have for say a driver - or a 3 metal
same as the loft & grind & bounce are real important for any wedge - the head shape the loft & choice of/or not of tech head adjustments are important to the choice of a driver - got to be comfortable with the look & the feel of any club

 

[shortgame]

This must be one of the poorest analogies I've ever heard. An engine supplies power. The "engine" in a golf swing is the bloke on the end of the club. The shaft is the transmission, if anything, and, as the connection between the player & the ball, it is obviously very important.

This. Well said

 

[NorfolkShaun]

not exactly sure what you mean by 'with a driver the margin for error is much narrower than with a wedge'
margin or error in relation to what ?

Sorry for any confusion.

I feel that due to the driver head speed being faster than with a wedge, a poor strike will likely be much worse with a driver to a wedge and have a worse outcome.

Therefore does a driver need more fine tuning in the fitting, hence the increased shaft / adjustability options. I feel this is how the marketing strikes me.

Would be interesting from marketing point of view, the cost of R&D, production and marketing to profit for various clubs.

 

[the_coach]

Sorry for any confusion.

I feel that due to the driver head speed being faster than with a wedge, a poor strike will likely be much worse with a driver to a wedge and have a worse outcome.

Therefore does a driver need more fine tuning in the fitting, hence the increased shaft / adjustability options. I feel this is how the marketing strikes me.

Would be interesting from marketing point of view, the cost of R&D, production and marketing to profit for various clubs.

there's no problem just wanted to exactly get where you were coming from with the question

my take - for sure driver because of design/length/less loft/less spin rate the club head also moving faster is more difficult to control - start the ball offline plus any flight curvatures then some 250 out when the ball drops that will amount to some distance offline

with the wedge & the greater lofts & greater spin rate produced plus shorter overall length with a slower chs there's potentially less can go wrong in terms of being offline a whole bunch if the player is sending it out 120
spine rate will restrict the amount the ball able to curve (off the face) along with the different head construction & then different cg placement (in relation to a driver)

also with a driver there's a tad more leeway under the regs with what the oem's can design & produce - plus there's the hoohah the glamor of the driver
all of which means the oem's have more room with to push up the rrp to make more profit from a single club - all of which led to the shaft options growing also