Do high handicappers get a raw deal...

[pokerjoke]

Sometimes I wish other players would give me advice whatever there handicap.
Its amazing what you can see from the outside watching other players.
However there is a time and place to do it.
After the round not during.
I got a great tip about putting a year or so ago from a higher handicapper however
he was and still is a better putter than me.

 

[bladeplayer]

It's always one higher than my current handicap at that time.

Love this , i class our 13th index 8 as a high handicapper hole , when im off 7 , this changes to our 9th index 9 when i go up to 8 ha ha

 

[Hacker Khan]

:sbox:

What are your views, if someone was 10, 15 or 20 shots higher than you and you asked for advice and they answered or replied with an opinion, would you dismiss it based only their handicap? Would you only listen and take on board the replies from those with a similar handicap, and if so why?

Be honest

If someone 20 shots worse than me gave me some advice I'd be a bit wary as that would probably mean they'd never picked up a golf club, the way i am currently playing.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Nope they don’t, but when I was a high handicapper, I wouldn’t have given out advice to anyone playing a good 5-10 shots better than me, unless I was particularly asked.

I think you are looking at it from a singular angle – high v low handicapper, whereas lots of other factors can come into it.

As already exampled, if an old/experienced 18 h/capper who had played to a lot higher level was giving advice, Id intently listen.

If a local high handicap member was giving advice on how to play a hole or their own course, I would listen.

It could be just as easy turning it on its head and asking:-

If you were looking for a state of the art driver, would you ask the 25 year old, 15 handicapper who is in and out of AG every 5 minutes, or the 62 year old single figures fella, who still uses a set of 20 year old blades. I'd ask the young lad.

I listen to a slightly higher handicapper than me (off 8) as he studies swings, reads and knows lots of differing stuff about swings and has been a slicer and a hooker. The fact that his own swing is as flat as a fluke, always made we wonder, how does he swing like that and drive it well. (Hiya, Gary from Derry). When it comes to swing mechanics, I don’t have much of a clue, and don’t even understand much of the parlance. However, if I was showing a high handicapper what to do (and he was looking for advice), I would just show them basics, or what I do, but that won’t always work, unless the want an uber fade.

Unsolicited advice from people who are just repeating things that they have heard, bits of this and bits of that, may make things even worse, as they may only know parts of a picture. A PGA pro can see the whole picture, and should know if you change this it affects that, can the amateur coach know this, I very much doubt it?

However, if the higher handicapper was talking about sports psychology, rules, statistics, courses, holes, great players etc I would share a conversation gladly and take his opinion as good as the next man. How to hit a great ball? I would listen then formulate an opinion.:thup:

 

[brendy]

Genuine question:

Are you suggesting that until they achieve your unqualified figure of an 18 handicap, that they don't play on a course or that they play but have to give you shots back above 18?

Why 18 by the way? (if its simply that's there's 18 holes then that's a figure based on course size not differences in playing ability and what has number of holes got to do with a handicap system for making play competitive)

Simply put, a maximum allowance of 18 shots. One extra shot per hole should be enough to be considered competitive. I (and could very well be on my own here!) just dont see how a 28 handicapper can be seen as competitive when they are allowed so many shots, the current limit is 28, the same argument could be why is it 28 and not say, 50? I would just like to see the limit lowered some more, in my opinion it would make the sport more competitive and inspire more high handicappers to seek out coaching and improve.

 

[patricks148]

I'll bite, how are high handicappers getting a "raw deal"?

TBH i don't offer advice on swing issues as I'm no expert, leave that to the Likes of BOB, after all its his job. not sure why you would be dishing out advice unless asked in the first place anyway.

I would n't take investment advice from my post man after all

 

[Fish]

I'll bite, how are high handicappers getting a "raw deal"?

TBH i don't offer advice on swing issues as I'm no expert, leave that to the Likes of BOB, after all its his job. not sure why you would be dishing out advice unless asked in the first place anyway.

I would n't take investment advice from my post man after all

Firstly, nobody has mentioned a singular advice scenario such as a swing technique, it is a general view/opinion and secondly, I have clearly stated in the OP and further on that the advice is not unsolicited, the lower handicapper asked advice say on here in an open forum or at a table in the bar for advice and has encouraged a response, BUT, as that person is a lower handicapped player, lets say a 5 just for you, should the higher handicapper, say 20 just sit in silence even though he thinks he may have something to add because the thought of a much lower handicapper taking an observation from a higher handicapper is seen by some as wrong?

 

[Foxholer]

Simply put, a maximum allowance of 18 shots. One extra shot per hole should be enough to be considered competitive. I (and could very well be on my own here!) just dont see how a 28 handicapper can be seen as competitive when they are allowed so many shots, the current limit is 28, the same argument could be why is it 28 and not say, 50? I would just like to see the limit lowered some more, in my opinion it would make the sport more competitive and inspire more high handicappers to seek out coaching and improve.

A pretty fast way to send much needed participants elsewhere imo!

The bold bit seems illogical to me! It's exactly why they are 'competitive'! I have no problem with guys playing off whatever they need to in order to be 'competitive'! And I can even remember one Society weekend where there were a couple of guys off 40+ in order to be competitive.

 

[brendy]

A pretty fast way to send much needed participants elsewhere imo!

The bold bit seems illogical to me! It's exactly why they are 'competitive'! I have no problem with guys playing off whatever they need to in order to be 'competitive'! And I can even remember one Society weekend where there were a couple of guys off 40+ in order to be competitive.

I think there is a difference between competitive and interested.
I (remember, just my opinion!!) just dont believe how someone can hack it round in a hundred and consider that competitive. (I also dont believe there should be a category 4 btw neither, it is a black hole mixing pot of new golfers descending vs campaigned golfers, some of whom who have no motivation to reduce as it keeps them in their jolly interclub outing team comps).

 

[JustOne]

If someone tells me that a straight shot is produced with a slightly leftwards swing path and a downwards attack angle then I'd listen to them no matter what their h/cap.

:thup:

 

[rosecott]

Simply put, a maximum allowance of 18 shots. One extra shot per hole should be enough to be considered competitive. I (and could very well be on my own here!) just dont see how a 28 handicapper can be seen as competitive when they are allowed so many shots, the current limit is 28, the same argument could be why is it 28 and not say, 50? I would just like to see the limit lowered some more, in my opinion it would make the sport more competitive and inspire more high handicappers to seek out coaching and improve.

For a very significant number of older players a maximum of 18 handicap would have the opposite effect of making things more competitive. We have a good number of 28-handicap seniors who will never be anything other than 28-handicappers. Many of them took up golf after retirement and many have physical issues such as inability to turn the hips, dodgy knees etc.etc.. They are barely competitive off 28 but they turn out twice a week, pay their comp fee, enjoy themselves with very little chance of being in the money. Occasionally one of them will have a half decent round and pick up £3 for 4th place in his division or maybe slip in a 2 for a share of the 2s pool. Who is going to deny them a glimmer of hope of unlikely success?

A properly run handicap committee should be able to ensure that players other than the ones I described are competing with an appropriate handicap for their level of competence.

 

[brendy]

Hey, I dont have all the answers, I did say if they had all their faculties and basic fitness. If they are too old to improve, perhaps a "senior" slot should be opened, I don't know. Plenty of 28 handicappers cant even play to that as it is the highest handicap given. As I asked theoretically, should we widen the handicap allowance so everyone no matter of ability, should be able to have an exact handicap?
What makes 28 any more correct than 18 or 80? We are digressing, to keep the thread on tack, I think anyone can give advice, it is simply down to the accuracy and experience behind the thought process. If I see someone slicing the ball, my immediate thought is to push the left leg (assuming right hander)forward. Is this correct? probably not but it would certainly be a temp fix. Would I give this advice, probably not neither as other inconsistencies in a swing could make compensations and screw it up just as badly.

For a very significant number of older players a maximum of 18 handicap would have the opposite effect of making things more competitive. We have a good number of 28-handicap seniors who will never be anything other than 28-handicappers. Many of them took up golf after retirement and many have physical issues such as inability to turn the hips, dodgy knees etc.etc.. They are barely competitive off 28 but they turn out twice a week, pay their comp fee, enjoy themselves with very little chance of being in the money. Occasionally one of them will have a half decent round and pick up £3 for 4th place in his division or maybe slip in a 2 for a share of the 2s pool. Who is going to deny them a glimmer of hope of unlikely success?

A properly run handicap committee should be able to ensure that players other than the ones I described are competing with an appropriate handicap for their level of competence.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I actively don't take advice about my swing from anyone who isn't being paid to teach me. Don't mind comments about stance. But anything technical I ignore.

Pretty much my take on it. The teaching pro I go to is doing good things to my swing and I trust him more than any unsolicited advice no mater how well meaning and from whatever source

 

[pokerjoke]

Pretty much my take on it. The teaching pro I go to is doing good things to my swing and I trust him more than any unsolicited advice no mater how well meaning and from whatever source

Can you tell me then about your above statement why you asked in the "Experts section" about
Bunker ball position.
Why did you not just ask the teaching pro.
Ive noticed you have changed his title from "my teaching pro" as he is everybodys that goes to him.
Ive noticed how much you contradict yourself all the time.
And if the above is what you think why do you find yourself giving others advice if
you don't like it yourself.
You might trust him but its not working,perhaps you should listen to more unsolicited advice.
In another thread you said something about saying it how it is without getting an infraction.
Well so am i.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Back to the OP and ignoring the (well mannered no doubt) personal attacks, I sometimes have to bite my tongue when I see people play. Purely because I am a high handicapper myself and I feel I am in no position to offer any advice. But then again I have had a few lessons and read enough stuff to know if someone is griping it wrong, or putting the ball in the wrong position for a driver.

It is tricky one as there is not a direct correlation between someone being very good at sport and also being able to coach others, as most top managers in football were never top players. But then again there's a much higher percentage chance of you knowing what you are talking about if you are good at the sport.

 

[guest100718]

Its pretty obvious that many on here see there handicap as a badge of honour going by how many have it in thier sig. you only have to read the experts forum see some of the sneering replies when a high handicap gives out some advice.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I don't care who the advice is from, it all gets politely accepted and then routinely ignored unless I am paying a teaching pro for said advice. I also don't give out advice on the golf swing as I have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

[Qwerty]

I'll listen to advice off anyone then make my own mind up if its worthwhile or not, If I was doing something wrong and it was obvious and apparent to my pp I'd be more than grateful if they pointed it out.
Ive been helped out a few times by higher handicappers, to be fair though I do know them quite well.

if someone stuck their oar in when I was playing ok though it wouldn't be that well received.

Im open to Advice at the Moment

 

[North Mimms]

I don't care who the advice is from, it all gets politely accepted and then routinely ignored unless I am paying a teaching pro for said advice. I also don't give out advice on the golf swing as I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Is the correct answer.

 

[Hickory_Hacker]

I have never offered any sort of advice, I'm not good enough and I never will be. On the point of taking advice it would have to come from a pretty good golfer or from someone that once was!

It's always polite to turn away and then laugh when some dafty is trying to cure your faults :fore: