Do high handicappers get a raw deal...

[Fish]

:sbox:

I've read on here many times and overheard conversations when lower handicappers at all levels ridicule or put down the views and opinions of higher handicappers when discussing their game and the issues that they are currently experiencing when asking for advice, it would seem, or indeed it comes across loud and clear at times, that the opinions, observations or general views of a higher handicapper are not welcome or taken seriously, why, because they simply cannot put into practice what they preach!

But, is that right or indeed fair?

I know many managers in sport and in the general working environments that have not achieved success at the ground level or even held a similar role but have an excellent understanding of what is needed, what is required, and what should be practised and changed to achieved better results from those they manage without being able to act fully upon that advice themselves, so, why is it that higher handicapped players get this stigma where lower handicapped players won't listen and refuse to accept their observations, is it snobbery, is it some kind of symbolic status symbol that they feel they are better at the game so the higher handicapped golfer could not, or indeed should not be able to help or advice them or god forbid highlight something they may have spotted and they may have overlooked themselves!

Whilst there may be a huge difference between knowledge and ability, I don't think its something that should be so nonchalantly dismissed just because someone is 10, 15 or 20 shots higher than the person looking for help!

What are your views, if someone was 10, 15 or 20 shots higher than you and you asked for advice and they answered or replied with an opinion, would you dismiss it based only their handicap? Would you only listen and take on board the replies from those with a similar handicap, and if so why?

Be honest

 

[fundy]

Open to it from anyone if I think they can offer decent advice, its down to me to filter it to get the advice I need or want. As an example I played in our mixed knockout final the other day, my partner plays off 20, didnt stop me asking for her to read a putt on a couple of occasions where i wasnt sure. As long as someone can communicate the point properly then thats fine for me.

Another example is I often practise with one of our pros, I will regularly offer my opinion on certain things he is doing in his swing, changes he is making etc and he's always happen to listen as he knows I have a decent understanding of the golf swing in general and his swing specifically, doesnt bother him that Im a chopper relative to him

 

[hackandburn]

Reading your OP reminded me of a quote attrubuted to Lee Tevino when asked why he didn't have a coach and he replied - "show me someone who can beat me and I'll listen to him"

On a serious note, I think you are on to something - I belive there is a lot of snobbery re handicaps and not just on the forum. I'm a low handicap these days but back in the day of being 8 +, it was noticebale how the really low players in my club would barely acknoweledge me let alone talk to me. Now that I can complete with them they are much more friendly.

Personally, I have lessons from pro I've been with for a few years and only really listen to him. I really beleive that even low handicappers don't know enough about the swing to give useful advice to anyone. Leave it those who have been professionally trained. Would you discuss your medical problems with someone who is just an enthusiastic reader of medical journals but not a qualified Doctor?

I don't beleive I am a snob just because I am a low handicapper and beleive that everyone's opinion is equally valid. But be careful who you listen to!!

 

[ArnoldArmChewer]

My general approach is not to listen to any advice apropro my swing unless I am paying to hear it, it doesn't matter to me whether the PP is 0 or 28 I will always doubt their ability to offer specific advice. If you are talking about course management, line of putts etc or match strategy I will of course listen to any sensible advice from anyone of any handicap.

 

[guest100718]

I have a dislike of unsolicited advice no matter who it comes from.

 

[Joff]

I actively don't take advice about my swing from anyone who isn't being paid to teach me. Don't mind comments about stance. But anything technical I ignore.

 

[Foxholer]

I've certainly received perfectly reasonable comments, if not advice, from guys 15 shots higher than me.

And given advice, gratefully received, to guys 10 shots or more lower than me!

It really depends what the comment or advice is about. I'd be wary of accepting advice about the minutae of a swing from any non-qualified/experienced/capable person, though some general observation may be perfectly fine. And I'd apply a similar approach if I was to give it too.

But there are definitely areas where high handicappers are simply not qualified/experienced/capable to advise, so shouldn't comment. Bunker play is one - where the goals are completely different! Putting however is an area where both high and low 'cappers should have the same approach, and can be equally good/bad, just like their 'advice'!

 

[brendy]

I will listen to advice but may filter what I believe to be bullplop quite quickly.

High handicappers who do not take lessons and improve themselves would be one area I may overlook when random advice is thrown at me. If I know someone has been working hard at their game and learned the tips etc via legit sources rather than cobbled together theories then fair enough.

I still maintain that no golfer with all faculties/basic fitness intact (this is important before anyone has a rant), should get more than a shot per hole. If they need more, they need lessons and appropriate practice.

 

[bladeplayer]

if you can play the shot you are advising me on il listen , no matter the handicap ,

ie i would take advice on putting from someone good at putting but their driving and iron play means they have a higher handicap.. but please dot tell me how to hit a 70 yard chip if you cant play it urself

that my honest answer Rob

 

[DeskBoundLondoner]

I think it's a bit more nuanced than just a handicap figure. I've taken advice before from higher handicappers because I respect their understanding of the game and the way they approach it. Was playing off 4 in a club comp in Aus and a 65 year old 18 handicapper reminded me on the 3rd green (after a double bogey) not to try and win the tournament on every hole. Worked a charm and I'll always be grateful to him for that.

I'm quite confident in my knowledge of the game, however personally the most I will do when asked for advice is refer someone to a drill or tip or video from a professional that I have had a positive experience with. Having worked at a golf academy, I have a ton of respect for PGA pros and know how much they focus on teaching the right thing at the right time, rather than unloading a library's worth of info in one go, as many well meaning amateur 'instructors' often do.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Speaking from the high handicappers point of view I find it best to ask before offering any advice.

I know many low guys who would not listen to a word I said as their view would be "what does he know!".

On the other hand I once asked an elite amateur (now a pro') who I had known since an 11 year old junior if he minded me making an observation. When , to my surprise, he said yes I pointed out that his stance had become more closed than I had ever known it. I next saw him a couple of weeks later when he thanked me as he had sent a video to his coach who confirmed my suspicions and he was then incorporating a drill to counter this.

However, had I not known the young man as well as I did I would probably not have noticed the fault and certainly would not have offered unsolicited advice.

 

[Foxholer]

...a 65 year old 18 handicapper

That's another category that could well be worth listening to. I experienced the 'snobbery' aspect when a fellow club member actually asked an elderly (more like 75) gentleman what he played off (18) when he suggested something post round at an away match - that seemed quite sensible advice to me. When the single figure recipient of the advice poo-poo-ed it on the basis of him being a high handicapper, another member of that club suggested that he look at the honours boards. The guy had been Club Scratch Champion 25 or more times eons ago!

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I would listen to any advice offered, if I had asked for said advice, no matter what age, handicap etc.
But if I hadn't asked for the advice I wouldn't listen to it unless it came from a professional.

 

[Slab]

I will listen to advice but may filter what I believe to be bullplop quite quickly.

High handicappers who do not take lessons and improve themselves would be one area I may overlook when random advice is thrown at me. If I know someone has been working hard at their game and learned the tips etc via legit sources rather than cobbled together theories then fair enough.

I still maintain that no golfer with all faculties/basic fitness intact (this is important before anyone has a rant), should get more than a shot per hole. If they need more, they need lessons and appropriate practice.

Genuine question:

Are you suggesting that until they achieve your unqualified figure of an 18 handicap, that they don't play on a course or that they play but have to give you shots back above 18?

Why 18 by the way? (if its simply that's there's 18 holes then that's a figure based on course size not differences in playing ability and what has number of holes got to do with a handicap system for making play competitive)

 

[NWJocko]

Nobody ever offers me advice so maybe I am beyond help!! :rofl:

I would listen to anything anyone had to say but have such little knowledge of the golf swing I wouldn't know if it made sense or not.

I can play like a 36 handicap with the best of them (and not a low handicap myself) so no "snobbery".

 

[drdel]

It happens in all walks of life and, in my opinion, those with closed minds live in their own little arrogant world.

In golf (or any other sport) none of the world's top players would ever employ a coach etc. if they took the same view. However they are professional enough to realise that advice and research is always useful if you listen and decide whether from your own point of view its is worth acting upon. If you never hear and take advice you'll never know whether you've missed out.

In my field I've managed to gained an internationally held reputation but I found there's always some-one from whom there's something to be learnt.

When play golf I can't give a toss if some-one makes a suggestion; I can't see myself so they might be right; just because they have a higher handicap doesn't suddenly make them blind and/or stupid.

Its just as well that these myopic golf snobs are in a minority otherwise poor old GM's editors and writers better shape up because otherwise unless they play off scratch none of the readers will be interested in their articles

 

[guest100718]

What's a high handicap? 10,15, 20, 25?

 

[rosecott]

What's a high handicap? 10,15, 20, 25?

It's always one higher than my current handicap at that time.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Its just as well that these myopic golf snobs are in a minority otherwise poor old GM's editors and writers better shape up because otherwise unless they play off scratch none of the readers will be interested in their articles

How many articles, giving advice, are written by none qualified people? It's generally pro's who give golf swing/technique advice, not journalists.

 

[Fish]

What's a high handicap? 10,15, 20, 25?

Its completely open in this case as the question and view revolves around accepting advice from someone who is higher than you, but, it does seem to be frowned upon, even though the person may ask for advice, that it is not welcome if you are high Cat3 or Cat4 golfer even though they may only be around the 10 mark!

Some interesting comments so far, I did state though that the lower handicap had asked for advice so its not unsolicited, more a case of not accepting or dismissing it due to the higher handicappers standard of play against their own, but not possibly their years of knowledge and understanding of the game!