Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

[Hacker Khan]

Of course it’s political. They even had a vote on it in the HoC last night.

Literally everything that is happening in society, including how the pandemic is impacting you or I, has a connection to actions taken by the current or past governments in the house of commons.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

There is a saying 'better to let 10 guilty men walk free than jail one innocent one'. Whilst the numbers are different, the principles is that we are willing to tolerate a few people who rip off the system (although on a fraction of the scale as many rich tax dodgers) if that is necessary to get to the ones who really need help.

The problem with that saying is that it’s normally those in positions abusing the system that make those decisions.

 

[Lazkir]

You also said it was the minority, and there are a minority of scum bags in all levels of society and there are children suffering at all levels as well.

Correct, it is a minority. But it's not as small as some would like to believe.
I do it see it on a regular basis and it upsets and angers me that there's nothing I can do about it.
I don't give a cr*p about the parents having ipads and holidays, but please just feed and clothe your kids properly for Gods sake!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Where did I say it didn’t concern me?
Where did I mention UC?

You didn’t - I did...

...so do you support providing children of the poorest with free food during their school holidays.

 

[Ethan]

Ok, please try and ditch the smug juvenile attitude for a minute.

What part of what I said did you take objection to and why? Do you really think it's not true and is just something I've read in the Daily Mail and repeated here just for kicks?
Do you think I'm just some disgruntled scrote that enjoys having a go at the poor for no reason?
I can assure you I'm not being condescending, nor prejudiced (if anything, read your post again, pot/kettle), as I actually came from a poor background and have suffered many of the shortcomings as a child that are being talked about here.
I'm genuinely baffled by your attitude, having read some of your previous postings you seem fairly normal so it's a bit odd.

Perhaps. Let's review:

"As someone who visits lots of households on a daily basis and has done for 30+ years, I can assure you that there are many many families like this, they have all the latest gear whilst their little ones crawl around in s**t. I've been to houses where there's booze and fags galore on the kitchen table, but the house is a s**thole and the kids are in rags. It's not the majority no, but I've seen it far too often for it to be just a statistical oddity.
It really burns to see kids that have zero chance in life because of their parents complete inability to be decent human beings and who use the kids as an income stream in the form of benefits."

So (a) certainly having a go at the poor for indulging in the latest gear whilst neglecting their children. Kids in rags, eh? Crawl around in s**t. Are you sure you weren't watching a Charles Dickens adaptation and thought it was real life? Any of them going up chimneys?

(b) for no reason - I have no idea how reliable your story is, it may be complete bollox (hence I asked for some idea of why you are in these homes) or what the psychology is behind your reasons for this attack on a broad swathe of the population. That is for you and your therapist to discuss, but I simply don't accept that characterisation of the poor.

I grew up in a Council estate and know how ordinary families struggle. Some of them get it wrong, some are derailed by external events but most do a damn good job protecting their children from the stress and hard work of the daily grind and trying their damnedest to get a better future. Your statement was callous, mean-spirited and unfair, and I utterly reject it.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I completely agree, but in order to feed the child you have to go through the parent at some stage.

But is a global pandemic that will hit the poorer in our society more than the luckier amongst us really the right time to try and teach them a lesson? And in some way, possibly unintentionally, come across as blaming parents for kids being on free school meals to the extent that the parents could easily do something about it at the current time?

Have no issue with the fact some parents are feckless. But have a big issue with that being used in any way to justify not helping the kids that need help in the current pandemic. Which is how it can come across.

 

[patricks148]

can we please steer clear of Politic here please gents.. Thank you

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Correct, it is a minority. But it's not as small as some would like to believe.
I do it see it on a regular basis and it upsets and angers me that there's nothing I can do about it.
I don't give a cr*p about the parents having ipads and holidays, but please just feed and clothe your kids properly for Gods sake!

I’d also argue it’s not as large or as widespread as others make out either.
I haven’t got as much experience as you from what you’ve said, but I certainly have too much to see those type are outnumbered by the genuine at the bottom struggling to do their best.

 

[bluewolf]

I’d also argue it’s not as large or as widespread as others make out either.
I haven’t got as much experience as you from what you’ve said, but I certainly have too much to see those type are outnumbered by the genuine at the bottom struggling to do their best.

Unfortunately, I do have some (tangential) experience of this sub-sector, and it is a small minority. However it is larger than some people think.

However, I'd just once like to see as much effort applied to complaining about all other sectors of Society that rip off the Tax Payer as is applied to those at the bottom of the ladder. Isn't there some sort of "Tax Payers Alliance" that should be looking into this?

 

[Lazkir]

Perhaps. Let's review:

"As someone who visits lots of households on a daily basis and has done for 30+ years, I can assure you that there are many many families like this, they have all the latest gear whilst their little ones crawl around in s**t. I've been to houses where there's booze and fags galore on the kitchen table, but the house is a s**thole and the kids are in rags. It's not the majority no, but I've seen it far too often for it to be just a statistical oddity.
It really burns to see kids that have zero chance in life because of their parents complete inability to be decent human beings and who use the kids as an income stream in the form of benefits."

So (a) certainly having a go at the poor for indulging in the latest gear whilst neglecting their children. Kids in rags, eh? Crawl around in s**t. Are you sure you weren't watching a Charles Dickens adaptation and thought it was real life? Any of them going up chimneys?

(b) for no reason - I have no idea how reliable your story is, it may be complete bollox (hence I asked for some idea of why you are in these homes) or what the psychology is behind your reasons for this attack on a broad swathe of the population. That is for you and your therapist to discuss, but I simply don't accept that characterisation of the poor.

I grew up in a Council estate and know how ordinary families struggle. Some of them get it wrong, some are derailed by external events but most do a damn good job protecting their children from the stress and hard work of the daily grind and trying their damnedest to get a better future. Your statement was callous, mean-spirited and unfair, and I utterly reject it.

You clearly don't believe these things happen, and just find it easier to attack someone who doesn't comply with your version of reality rather than deal with it.
Fine, you crack on living in your make believe world, where everyone is wonderful and the world would be great if we could all just be nice.

I did try to have an intelligent discussion about it but as you're incapable I'll leave it there.

 

[Lazkir]

But is a global pandemic that will hit the poorer in our society more than the luckier amongst us really the right time to try and teach them a lesson? And in some way, possibly unintentionally, come across as blaming parents for kids being on free school meals to the extent that the parents could easily do something about it at the current time?

Have no issue with the fact some parents are feckless. But have a big issue with that being used in any way to justify not helping the kids that need help in the current pandemic. Which is how it can come across.

I never said anything about teaching them a lesson, nor did I want to punish anyone. (please show me if I did).
I also agree the kids should be helped.
But my point is how do you go about that when you have "feckless" parents who won't or can't be bothered to engage?
I'm not saying we shouldn't try, but it's difficult to know the best way to go about it.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I never said anything about teaching them a lesson, nor did I want to punish anyone. (please show me if I did).
I also agree the kids should be helped.
But my point is how do you go about that when yo have "feckless" parents who won't or can't be bothered to engage?
I'm not saying we shouldn't try, but it's difficult to know the best way to go about it.

What you don’t do is risk child hunger amongst all the poorest families because of the struggles of a minority of parents. One of the most basic responsibilities of a civilised society is doing whatever is required to keep children fed - especially through the most difficult times...and yes - that may well require suspension of judgemental feelings...the money is available - I have just heard some bloke in a suit tell us of it as it will be spent elsewhere - and that is fine - but it should not divert our gaze from that which is most important.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Unfortunately, I do have some (tangential) experience of this sub-sector, and it is a small minority. However it is larger than some people think.

However, I'd just once like to see as much effort applied to complaining about all other sectors of Society that rip off the Tax Payer as is applied to those at the bottom of the ladder. Isn't there some sort of "Tax Payers Alliance" that should be looking into this?

No doubting it’s a problem, but I’d argue it’s the quantifying of the size of the problem that is difficult.

I might go weeks doing casework for the RBL and meet “what I’d consider” deserving cases, I can then go weeks were it seems I’d meet, “again what I’d consider” every other case being a low life (being polite) trying to take advantage of the system, both the RBL’s and Benefit System.

Sadly a lot of the low lifes are not uneducated.

 

[KenL]

can we please steer clear of Politic here please gents.. Thank you

Maybe remind people to be nice to one another too.

 

[Sweep]

You didn’t - I did...

...so do you support providing children of the poorest with free food during their school holidays.

As you know, like you I am a political person and you won’t be surprised to learn I have an opinion on this. However, even though I enjoyed our political debates, as I am following the rules and indeed understand the reasoning behind making the rule, I won’t discuss them on this thread. This is of course unlike others who have politicised a thread because they just can’t help themselves.

 

[Ethan]

You clearly don't believe these things happen, and just find it easier to attack someone who doesn't comply with your version of reality rather than deal with it.
Fine, you crack on living in your make believe world, where everyone is wonderful and the world would be great if we could all just be nice.

I did try to have an intelligent discussion about it but as you're incapable I'll leave it there.

Sorry, I missed the intelligent parts for the stereotyping, unsubstantiated generalisations and contempt for the poor.

I am perfectly capable of dissecting a set of spurious and unfounded arguments. I do it for a living.

Let's indeed leave it there as you are unwilling to properly explain your rant.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I never said anything about teaching them a lesson, nor did I want to punish anyone. (please show me if I did).
I also agree the kids should be helped.
But my point is how do you go about that when you have "feckless" parents who won't or can't be bothered to engage?
I'm not saying we shouldn't try, but it's difficult to know the best way to go about it.

One may argue that helping the kids with vouchers would be a good start. The challenge is that the 'ipad and TV' argument is used by those who want to deny the kids these vouchers in the holidays as a reason /excuse /justification.

Saying something is difficult (which it is) to me is not a reason not to at least do a simple basic thing that will help in difficult times. It is such an easy, and I'm my opinion, humane thing that any civilised society should do.

People can make a perfectly reasonable point that there are feckless parents out there that we need to address, but in the mean time let's urgently help vulnerable kids in a time of a global pandemic.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Guys
Handbags away please

 

[SatchFan]

One may argue that helping the kids with vouchers would be a good start. The challenge is that the 'ipad and TV' argument is used by those who want to deny the kids these vouchers in the holidays as a reason /excuse /justification.

Saying something is difficult (which it is) to me is not a reason not to at least do a simple basic thing that will help in difficult times. It is such an easy, and I'm my opinion, humane thing that any civilised society should do.

People can make a perfectly reasonable point that there are feckless parents out there that we need to address, but in the mean time let's urgently help vulnerable kids in a time of a global pandemic.

Agree with the voucher idea. It's a bit cumbersome but helps bypass potential issues.

 

[Hacker Khan]

As you know, like you I am a political person and you won’t be surprised to learn I have an opinion on this. However, even though I enjoyed our political debates, as I am following the rules and indeed understand the reasoning behind making the rule, I won’t discuss them on this thread. This is of course unlike others who have politicised a thread because they just can’t help themselves.

Surely your can have and state your views on feeding kids or other Covid issues and it not be political? If not then you end up with your views being totally dictated by a political party. And last time I looked at were all free to think and comment our views on things that may well not align with whoever we vote for.

The fact is, for better or worse, that political decisions will completely impact how Covid is impacting us, or friends, families and society as a whole. If you have to run every post through a 'is this too political' filter then it's a sad state of affairs.