Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

[Ethan]

That helps with my understanding but could do with a little bit of clarification. Lets say I have been in contact with a person who has covid. Within what time period could it start showing as a positive result if I am tested. I am only looking at this in the context of the travel industry as the UK airlines are calling for people to be tested on return to the UK whereas my favourite holiday destination is currently allowing US tourists based on their production of a negative covid test no more than 7 days old. Is testing an option or could people infected still be producing a negative test result for a period after the initial contact.

If someone coughs a load of Covid in your face, it'll probably take at least a couple of days before your test shows positive, but can be a week or so. In that time, the little beasties are replicating within you and infecting cells throughout your body, but it isn't until you are shedding virus in decent quantities that you test positive. Symptoms occur after the test is positive, if they occur.

Note also that a negative test can arise for various reasons, including poor testing technique.

That means that the airport test is only useful for determining if you were exposed 2-7+ days ago, so you will probably have heard the suggestion that you get a test on arrival and one 5-7 days later. This makes sense. If you test negative on the second occasion, you should be released from quarantine. The holiday destination negative test thing is better than nothing but not very reliable. You may remember some debate about immunity certificates based on an antibody test showing prior exposure with antibody response. That was not favoured by Govt because it would set up a two tier system for restrictions, although they justified not doing it by saying that we did not know that antibodies confer immunity. I think we now have good evidence to suggest they do and I wonder if reviving that idea now has some value.

 

[GB72]

If someone coughs a load of Covid in your face, it'll probably take at least a couple of days before your test shows positive, but can be a week or so. In that time, the little beasties are replicating within you and infecting cells throughout your body, but it isn't until you are shedding virus in decent quantities that you test positive. Symptoms occur after the test is positive, if they occur.

Note also that a negative test can arise for various reasons, including poor testing technique.

That means that the airport test is only useful for determining if you were exposed 2-7+ days ago, so you will probably have heard the suggestion that you get a test on arrival and one 5-7 days later. This makes sense. If you test negative on the second occasion, you should be released from quarantine. The holiday destination negative test thing is better than nothing but not very reliable. You may remember some debate about immunity certificates based on an antibody test showing prior exposure with antibody response. That was not favoured by Govt because it would set up a two tier system for restrictions, although they justified not doing it by saying that we did not know that antibodies confer immunity. I think we now have good evidence to suggest they do and I wonder if reviving that idea now has some value.

Thank you, that has helped in my understanding a great deal. Basically, testing on return is not a great idea as, it one person gets infected just before flying home, they could then infect the whole of the plane but it is possible that nobody would produce a positive test result. Same with testing before departure for other countries, all that shows is that I did not have covid (or enough infected cells to produce a positive test result) on that day but could be merrily partying on a resort whilst being totally asymptomatic but infecting everyone.

My favourite destination and annual treat is a trip to antigua. They are currently letting in US guests, most of whom have flown in via a stopover in Miami so not great. They only have to produce a test result that is negative and dated within the last seven days. These tests are paid for, self administered and sent to a bulk commercial lab. Not ideal.

Like the idea of antibody testing but my concern (may sound stupid) is that there will be a number of brain donors who see that they can do more once they have had covid and will actually aim to get infected to get a positive antibody test.

 

[Ethan]

Thank you, that has helped in my understanding a great deal. Basically, testing on return is not a great idea as, it one person gets infected just before flying home, they could then infect the whole of the plane but it is possible that nobody would produce a positive test result. Same with testing before departure for other countries, all that shows is that I did not have covid (or enough infected cells to produce a positive test result) on that day but could be merrily partying on a resort whilst being totally asymptomatic but infecting everyone.

My favourite destination and annual treat is a trip to antigua. They are currently letting in US guests, most of whom have flown in via a stopover in Miami so not great. They only have to produce a test result that is negative and dated within the last seven days. These tests are paid for, self administered and sent to a bulk commercial lab. Not ideal.

Like the idea of antibody testing but my concern (may sound stupid) is that there will be a number of brain donors who see that they can do more once they have had covid and will actually aim to get infected to get a positive antibody test.

The first para describes the problem with testing perfectly. Doing it as a baseline to identify the already toxic, but with a quarantine for a week followed by another test is much better and probably quite enough.

Antigua is taking a calculated risk, knowing their tourist economy will die if they don't do something. a test taken 7 days ago is next to useless, because the exposure tested is for the period no more recent than 9 days ago, and the time course of exposure over that period means they may well not be a risk anymore even if that test was positive then.

I hope nobody would be stupid enough to get infected deliberately with what we now know about the complications and long lasting effects of infection even in young fit people. But we know that (some) people are stupid.

 

[Rlburnside]

There is the crux of the matter when it comes to blanket bans. I think your posts come across as well thought out and as someone advocating of blanket bans at least you have the decency to talk sensibly and show understanding unlike others on here who make up petty scenarios because it doesn't affect them and can't see why others don't follow their blind opinion.

Just one of the issues I have with the blanket bans is using the Canaries as a continued example and Aragon in Mainland Spain which is an area currently suffering. Gran Canaria is 1490 Miles away from Aragon, whereas where I live in Lincolnshire is 1054 miles away. So im still closer to the infected area back here in UK than if I were in a self contained Villa in GC.

People say yeah but you have an ocean and lots of countries between you and Spain, so flip that around then I'm only 115 miles from a badly affected area in Lancashire which has over 10 times the current confirmed cases than the entire Canary Islands has yet I'd be perfectly allowed to holiday there, day trip there and much more likely to come into contact with people, and that's similar in many more UK locations.

That for me is just one of many reasons this doesn't work, currently much less risk in the Canaries or Balearic Islands than there is right here in good old blighty. But there is far less restrictions here on where I can go and what I can do. We need better regionalisation in the UK as well as just looking at banning travel to some areas where the risk factor is actually far lower.

Anyway, Im banging the same drum over and over so I'll bow out of this debate for now...

Any sensible person would not go to a hot spot in the UK for a holiday so that point is rather irrelevant, if you went to the canaries or anywhere else in Spain you would still have to sit on a plane for 2/4 hours breathing re circulated air, not something I would like.

I’m not contemplating a holiday this year but if I was I would choose a quiet spot in the uk just to be on the safe side. ?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

We have a holiday in Valencia booked for mid-October. The Spanish PM tells us that Valencia is A-OK. But will look to find the Valencian equivalent to Junta de Almeria...

My other more basic question (for @Hobbit?) is whether or not the Spanish virus management rules permit multiple couples to be staying together in the one - same - apartment at the same time. We are one of four couples booked into a Valencia City Centre apartment for a three night stay.

 

[Wolf]

Any sensible person would not go to a hot spot in the UK for a holiday so that point is rather irrelevant, if you went to the canaries or anywhere else in Spain you would still have to sit on a plane for 2/4 hours breathing re circulated air, not something I would like.

I’m not contemplating a holiday this year but if I was I would choose a quiet spot in the uk just to be on the safe side. ?

Any sensible person wouldn't you're right but how many sensible people are there currently...

Plus in general terms we're still far more likely to come into contact with someone from an infected area just being here in UK. I work at an MOD site that has people from all over UK who go home every weekend back to those hotpots and potentially bring it back weekly and working in recirculated environments. Its not just about holidays in this country, and that's my point. Even just in day to day life more risk here than someone taking a week away in the Canaries.

We need far better home based controls before we state somewhere else is more of a risk when its actually not.

Like I said before though I'm out ?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

We have a holiday in Valencia booked for mid-October. The Spanish PM tells us that Valencia is A-OK. But will look to find the Valencian equivalent to Junta de Almeria...

My other more basic question (for @Hobbit?) is whether or not the Spanish virus management rules permit multiple couples to be staying together in the one - same - apartment at the same time. We are one of four couples booked into a Valencia City Centre apartment for a three night stay.

I'm amazed you are doing this. Would you do it in the UK right now? 4 households in one enclosed space, how can that add up?

 

[GB72]

The first para describes the problem with testing perfectly. Doing it as a baseline to identify the already toxic, but with a quarantine for a week followed by another test is much better and probably quite enough.

Antigua is taking a calculated risk, knowing their tourist economy will die if they don't do something. a test taken 7 days ago is next to useless, because the exposure tested is for the period no more recent than 9 days ago, and the time course of exposure over that period means they may well not be a risk anymore even if that test was positive then.

I hope nobody would be stupid enough to get infected deliberately with what we now know about the complications and long lasting effects of infection even in young fit people. But we know that (some) people are stupid.

I can understand the position taken by antigua as they are so reliant on tourists. What makes my jaw drop though is that the visitors from the US are are taking a test at home (not the most reliable method) but then, after having a negative result, they are then having a layover in a state that is a covid hot spot. You could not make it up.

I would love to agree with you that people would not get it deliberately to gain more freedom but there are enough knuckle draggers round my way to not be so convinced.

Anyway, thanks again for the information, gives me a clearer perspective on some of the opinions that I am seeing and so, hopefully, allows me to debate those opinions from am more informed and open sstandpoint.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Any sensible person would not go to a hot spot in the UK for a holiday so that point is rather irrelevant, if you went to the canaries or anywhere else in Spain you would still have to sit on a plane for 2/4 hours breathing re circulated air, not something I would like.

I’m not contemplating a holiday this year but if I was I would choose a quiet spot in the uk just to be on the safe side. ?

So you’ll do a risk assessment and make the best decision for you and yours, nobody has the right to say you’re wrong or stupid or whatever, without knowing your circumstances.
Unfortunately some on here tarred everyone going abroad with the same brush.

 

[BubbaP]

So a quick Google will give you the current figures that prove your argument doesn't hold up.
Currently as of today there are 745 confirmed cases of Covid-19 in South West, England. A place that going by your previous post would be a suitable place for a stay at home holiday as its UK based. Somewhere we could all rock up to tomorrow if we so wished.

Lanzarote current number of Covid19 cases = 6.... To add further context the entire number of cases combined across the whole of the Canary Islands is 74!

So an entire group of Islands that travel is banned to because they're "Spanish" is banned because of increased risk of Covid-19, yet 1 region in England has over 10 times that amount alone, but we can all go there at will!

I'd suggest its not as cut and dried as you think and others think, there are other things to consider before we all go calling for blanket bans, ruining economy, jobs, mental health and other things. We need to look at what's going on at home as much if not more than abroad...

I know you are out, but are you out - out?

I'm in general agreement with the general direction of your posts/view, but the nerd in me does just need to flag up the 'comparing apples with oranges' risk (that we see in the media all the time)

i.e.
South West England - 5.6 million population
Lanzarote - 152 thousand population

Appreciate other comparisons have been used as this evolved (including the Canary Islands one above - which stacks up better.)

 

[Wolf]

I know you are out, but are you out - out?

I'm in general agreement with the general direction of your posts/view, but the nerd in me does just need to flag up the 'comparing apples with oranges' risk (that we see in the media all the time)

i.e.
South West England - 5.6 million population
Lanzarote - 152 thousand population

Appreciate other comparisons have been used as this evolved (including the Canary Islands one above - which stacks up better.)

Good point on numbers, but even less people to potentially contract it from then ?

 

[Rooter]

I'm amazed you are doing this. Would you do it in the UK right now? 4 households in one enclosed space, how can that add up?

Covid is different on holiday though isn't it? Like the sun is a bit hotter, the beer is a bit stronger. They have the same stuff in the shops at home, but its just a little different! Les Cadburys Fingres for example..

 

[Robster59]

We have work that needs to be completed in Ireland and has been since just after lockdown. However, we still cannot go over there to complete the work as the United Kingdom is not in Irelands Green Light list so we would have to quarantine for 14 days in Ireland before we could do any work.
In theory I could take the ferry to Belfast and drive down but my company is not allowing this and the other contractors would be flying straight into Dublin anyway.
So until Ireland adds us to the Green Light list, we're stuck.

On holidays abroad, given that the latest viewpoint is that young people are driving the spikes in Coronavirus, and lots of young people who think they're invulnerable are travelling abroad for their holidays AND not following social distancing rules, I wouldn't want to share a plane with them.

 

[bobmac]

On holidays abroad, given that the latest viewpoint is that young people are driving the spikes in Coronavirus, and lots of young people who think they're invulnerable are travelling abroad for their holidays AND not following social distancing rules, I wouldn't want to share a plane with them.

I agree but only 100%,() I'm going nowhere this year. I'll save my money and go somewhere special next year.

 

[GB72]

On holidays abroad, given that the latest viewpoint is that young people are driving the spikes in Coronavirus, and lots of young people who think they're invulnerable are travelling abroad for their holidays AND not following social distancing rules, I wouldn't want to share a plane with them.

Maybe the next step is to reverse the situation, lockdown everyone under 25 and let the more vulnerable age groups and people shielding out.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

As she works in the cancer charity sector, and has used their services herself, my wife is very concerned and upset at what she is hearing from across the cancer charities.

Lots of significant cutbacks and closures of some cancer support centres happening as charity income has plummeted. The problem for us all is that we depend hugely upon the support services the cancer charities provide that the NHS is just not able to provide. Unfortunately as the charities are clearly not getting any guarantee of ongoing government funding to compensate for their loss of charitable giving income and bridge the gap until it returns - they are simply having to make the significant cuts to what they provide that we are seeing. And some highly skilled and experienced people who work in the sector are being made redundant and having to look elsewhere - their skills could well be completely lost to the charities. And each and every one of us might well feel the impact of that - as will the NHS Cancer teams as they are forced to pick up some of what the charities have been providing.

I am sure that this same issue is impacting across the charitable sector - as invisible as it is to most of us at the moment. And other than increased government funding I don't know what can be done...and there are so many calls on the public purse at the moment.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm amazed you are doing this. Would you do it in the UK right now? 4 households in one enclosed space, how can that add up?

It doesn't. Why I am asking. We go away with the same 3 or 4 couples every couple of years (the girls of each couple being a very close group of nursing friends from their training days nearly 40yrs ago). This has been booked since September of last year. If our flights to Valencia are cancelled or if Spanish authorities say No then we have a chance of refund. Just trying to get answers to some basic unknowns so we are better placed to know what to do when we come to cancel - or wait until it is cancelled for us. We don't want to go - it doesn't make sense in any way to me. And the truth is that in all probability we won't go.

 

[Hobbit]

We have a holiday in Valencia booked for mid-October. The Spanish PM tells us that Valencia is A-OK. But will look to find the Valencian equivalent to Junta de Almeria...

My other more basic question (for @Hobbit?) is whether or not the Spanish virus management rules permit multiple couples to be staying together in the one - same - apartment at the same time. We are one of four couples booked into a Valencia City Centre apartment for a three night stay.

The protocols are managed at a regional level, e.g. Madrid has only just made masks mandatory in public. Andalucia has had the rule for 9 days.

Quite what the rules are for Valencia, I don’t know. As for what they’ll be in 3 months time, that’s a lick your finger and stick it in the air.

However, pretty much all the regions have the same rules for how many can sit around a table in a bar, 15, but they must all be friends or relatives.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It doesn't. Why I am asking. We go away with the same 3 or 4 couples every couple of years (the girls of each couple being a very close group of nursing friends from their training days nearly 40yrs ago). This has been booked since September of last year. If our flights to Valencia are cancelled or if Spanish authorities say No then we have a chance of refund. Just trying to get answers to some basic unknowns so we are better placed to know what to do when we come to cancel - or wait until it is cancelled for us. We don't want to go - it doesn't make sense in any way to me. And the truth is that in all probability we won't go.

In terms of a refund you may have to sit it out and wait until nearer the time for a cancellation to happen. I am guessing this is not a package, you have put this together yourselves. The airline may allow you to transfer the flights or take a voucher. They are being pretty good with that so I would not expect that to be an issue. In terms of the accomodation you would need to read the cancellation policy but utlimately you may have to take a hit on that. Incidentally, did you take out insurance before the pandemic broke? As you booked prior to this kicking off you may be covered for it. Worth looking into.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

In terms of a refund you may have to sit it out and wait until nearer the time for a cancellation to happen. I am guessing this is not a package, you have put this together yourselves. The airline may allow you to transfer the flights or take a voucher. They are being pretty good with that so I would not expect that to be an issue. In terms of the accomodation you would need to read the cancellation policy but utlimately you may have to take a hit on that. Incidentally, did you take out insurance before the pandemic broke? As you booked prior to this kicking off you may be covered for it. Worth looking into.

We have permanent travel insurance through our bank...and I have checked and such as lockdowns either at the holiday location or at the my home that prevent me travelling look to be covered. The only circumstance that we would go would be if...well actually I can't think of any circumstance...because 'community virus virtually eliminated' isn't going to happen. I guess the reason the girls haven't yet had that conversation is that we live in hope...