Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

[Fish]

From what we read/hear (if we believe the various sources), some hospitals have more PPE than they need and some don't have what they need. Sounds like a failure at national/government level to me.

Not at all, PPE isn’t ordered from a central source, and the government isn’t involved at all!

Trusts buy in from any companies within the UK and all over Europe and worldwide, as long as the items conform to our standards.

So they’ll base, or did, there purchases on price and availability.

With never experiencing anything on this scale before, some suppliers can’t meet the demands, so now trusts need to find new suppliers at a moments notice!

How can any of that be lay at the governments door?

Why are so many people surprised that we don’t have the capacity to supply basic equipment when we hardly make any of it ourselves!

The whole country, businesses and the public are so used to buying cheap from wherever the Labour is most underpaid, first and foremost, and who now have there own issues on their own back yards, that it’s really shown us as a country to be so exposed and thus we are now reliant on begging uk companies (some are volunteering) to diversify to help.

After this everyone needs to have a hard look at themselves who contribute to this ideal rather than trying to pin everything on Boris and the government.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Nearly, opposite way round...

Answering the question before last...
Hilarious ?

Not at all, in FMQ tweedle dee [Tory][ asks a question and gets an answer.
Next tweedle dummer [LAB] asks the same question that has already been answered
Then tweedle even dummer [Lib] asks the same question that has already been answered twice.

That is the sad state of affairs with Scottish opposition parties.

 

[Fish]

How about government apologising for its shortcomings... And, forcing trusts into having to compete for kit...

How about Tony Blair being hung out to dry?

The NHS Deficit is £2.5 billion - most of that caused by PFI contracts signed off on by? Tony Blair.

You could have paid the NHS deficit off 4 times over and still had £2bn left for frontline services if not for? Tony Blair.

Why is our NHS in crisis? Tony Blair.

In the last 5 years of Blair's government the NHS lost 26,000 beds.

In the last 12 years, under the coalition then May governments, the NHS lost 16,000 beds.

That means Blair lost nearly twice the number of NHS beds as the next 2 Tory led/Tory governments combined - in half the time.

The current government under Boris Johnson hasn't signed a single PFI NHS contract.

Probably because they don't take political bribes off Richard Branson.

Unlike Labour, who to this day have affiliated organisations paid for by Richard Branson.

PFI is spread over a twenty five year term at the end of which most hospitals belong to the banks. The NHS hospitals sold by Blair & Brown were bought back into public ownership by? The Tories.

 

[bluewolf]

If you want to know what the lifting of lockdown will look like then presumably the best bet is to follow Denmark, Austria, Estonia and a few others, Germany probably. They are ahead of us and are starting to lift restrictions. It is logical that our govt will be watching what happens in those countries, what works, what doesn't, and use it as a blueprint for us.

I doubt they would go completely off piste on lifting restrictions compared to other countries so the above makes sense, to me anyway ?.

???
What you replied to there was a part post I wrote previously, then deleted as I realised the utter futility of writing it. This stupid forum platform won’t let you delete a part post until you’ve compiled and posted another one. Which is now going to be my next post in the random irritation thread ??

 

[Imurg]

???
What you replied to there was a part post I wrote previously, then deleted as I realised the utter futility of writing it. This stupid forum platform won’t let you delete a part post until you’ve compiled and posted another one. Which is now going to be my next post in the random irritation thread ??

In the reply box, the menu on the top (smiles etc) on the far right is the * button to open and close it.
Next to it is a disk icon with an arrow
Click on that and you have the option to delete draft or save draft
Click delete draft, come out of that page, go back in and it's gone..

 

[bluewolf]

In the reply box, the menu on the top (smiles etc) on the far right is the * button to open and close it.
Next to it is a disk icon with an arrow
Click on that and you have the option to delete draft or save draft
Click delete draft, come out of that page, go back in and it's gone..

Finally, a useful post in this thread ?????????????????????????????

 

[MegaSteve]

How about Tony Blair being hung out to dry?

The NHS Deficit is £2.5 billion - most of that caused by PFI contracts signed off on by? Tony Blair.

You could have paid the NHS deficit off 4 times over and still had £2bn left for frontline services if not for? Tony Blair.

Why is our NHS in crisis? Tony Blair.

In the last 5 years of Blair's government the NHS lost 26,000 beds.

In the last 12 years, under the coalition then May governments, the NHS lost 16,000 beds.

That means Blair lost nearly twice the number of NHS beds as the next 2 Tory led/Tory governments combined - in half the time.

The current government under Boris Johnson hasn't signed a single PFI NHS contract.

Probably because they don't take political bribes off Richard Branson.

Unlike Labour, who to this day have affiliated organisations paid for by Richard Branson.

PFI is spread over a twenty five year term at the end of which most hospitals belong to the banks. The NHS hospitals sold by Blair & Brown were bought back into public ownership by? The Tories.

If Blair or Brown were in government and there were similar/same shortcomings evident I'd be equally as questioning... IMO As it became evident there were issues with the supply of kit... Hancock or his ministry/department should have taken full control of procurement/distribution... Instead they appear to have just worked to distance themselves from blame...

 

[hovis]

... IMO As it became evident there issues with the supply of kit... Hancock or his ministry/department should have taken full control of procurement/distribution... Instead they appear to have just worked to distance themselves from blame...

perhaps now gowns are critical level they might.

 

[Foxholer]

In the reply box, the menu on the top (smiles etc) on the far right is the * button to open and close it.
Next to it is a disk icon with an arrow
Click on that and you have the option to delete draft or save draft
Click delete draft, come out of that page, go back in and it's gone..

Or you can also 'clear all the text in the post you don't want to post' and attempt to post an empty text - which it won't allow. Clicking the 'X' normally allows you to continue afresh, though I have had it leave the text I wanted to abandon once.

 

[Blue in Munich]

None of us do, all we can do is speculate. The government have done some great things during this crisis but also some catastrophic failures, I don't subscribe to the attitude that they shouldn't be criticised. It's more important than ever to hold them to account.

Whilst I'd agree that it is important to hold any Government to account, timing is everything and I don't think now is the time. To paraphrase something that used to sit on the office wall, they are currently trying to drain the swamp; do they need to be up to their collective arse in alligators, because that might distract from the mission's objective in my opinion.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Things being as they NOW are, why cannot a group of civil servants be set up in a couple of rooms to telephone each hospital to find out who has excess ppe and who hasn't enough. Answers should be immediate.
Then get couriers, pretty damn quick to go and pick it up and take it to where needed.
Like Churchill - endorse it "Action this day"

First you need the trust to admit it and as they will operate on a belts and braces strategy they will be very reluctant to give a true figure.

Exactly; you've got a better chance of China publishing true death figures than hospitals owning up to having too much PPE.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Exactly; you've got a better chance of China publishing true death figures than hospitals owning up to having too much PPE.

colleagues wife works in a hospital, they have ample PPE with some surplus, where she trained another part of the country has none. They are reluctant to give up what they have incase they suddenly get a spike and cant protect their staff.

must be a hard thing to manage

 

[SocketRocket]

Like 90% of everything posted on here it's opinion. I explained my thinking, which seems sound to me, in my reply to socketrocket's post.

It would as it's your opinion.

 

[Blue in Munich]

I think that's true of some things. Now is not the time to castigate them for taking too long to lockdown, for example, that ship has sailed. But on other matters that can possibly be influenced such as PPE, testing, exit strategy etc I think it right they face some scrutiny.

Agree in principle though that it needs to be at a proportionate level to be of benefit rather than just distracting from "the mission".

And the problem with your second paragraph, with which I can agree, is that the only people that currently will be holding them to account are the press, who have proved beyond all doubt that they are totally unsuited to anything involving the word "proportionate"; it's either nuclear or nothing with them at the moment.

 

[Fish]

Robin, my whole point on this is that in these exceptional circumstances it falls to government to ensure that scarce resources are distributed according to need. It may not be their role in "normal" times but they need to step in. Left to their own devices, trusts are obviously going to ensure they have a surplus if possible.

That would be a complete logistical overhaul as goods are currently arriving in from everywhere and being delivered directly.

You’d need to obtain every suppliers details, have them deliver to a central, or regional hubs (slowing down what we have now), have all the trusts, hospitals etc put in requisitions to a central office (more admin!) and then distribute accordingly.

Sounds easy, but that’s a big operation to set up and arrange and to get working efficiently, in double quick time!

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, I think it’s too late to step in now, but at what point would have been ideal, undoing a lot of what some trusts are obviously on top of.

The media are obviously focusing on some specific hospitals that are in worse situations regarding access to PPE, I’d like to know how many there are, and if it’s a small percentage, which I expect it is, but the media are pumping it, I’d like to know why they’ve failed to obtain enough PPE when others clearly haven’t?

 

[SocketRocket]

Agreed, it'll be difficult. So should we leave a failing system in place or try to fix it?

I think Robin answered that

 

[hovis]

Agreed, it'll be difficult. So should we leave a failing system in place or try to fix it?

one thing for sure is that when this is over the NHS won't be the same. I hope!

 

[Hobbit]

Things being as they NOW are, why cannot a group of civil servants be set up in a couple of rooms to telephone each hospital to find out who has excess ppe and who hasn't enough. Answers should be immediate.
Then get couriers, pretty damn quick to go and pick it up and take it to where needed.
Like Churchill - endorse it "Action this day"

Agree, bring the NHS back under one umbrella and get rid of trusts, get rid of their CEOs and staff that aren't trained in the rolls the might be doing. Save a fortune.

A bit like the Regional Health Boards that just had one Admin Centre for, for example, North Yorkshire. Worked well for donkey's years. Some Trusts amalgamated a number of years ago - slowly going back towards centralisation.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Why can’t the Government appoint someone (from any Political Larty) to oversee the PPE and get a true picture of what is going on.

Instruct ALL Trusts to answer the questions asked by said person and then decide if they need to step in and take over the supply of PPE.

Hospitals will continue to need it forever, forget what has happened up to now and get the true picture so they can maybe influence or protect all Staff that need PPE moving forward.

Surely we can’t keep allowing these questions to be asked or allow 1 hospital to have too much while others struggle.

Not every question asked during this crisis has to be politically linked either by the poster or those giving responses.

I’m pretty confident there’ll be plenty of political fall out from this, on all sides, warranted or not once it’s over.

 

[Fish]

Agreed, it'll be difficult. So should we leave a failing system in place or try to fix it?

A failing system, by what proportions?

If 80% is fully equipped (I don't know the figures), would you change a whole operation for the 20% that’s fallen off a cliff, or would you quickly identify why that 20% has failed and address that?

Myself and hundreds of couriers across the country are delivering PPE into hospitals and pharmacies on a daily basis, some repeatedly within a week or two, and I’m talking about thousands of items within a single shipment, so the system hasn’t failed, some trusts or hospitals are just better at procurement than others, so does that require a complete overhaul of the logistics because of a possible minority that have failed, and that the media are constantly focusing on, I don’t think so personally.