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Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

SwingsitlikeHogan said:
If we don’t find the briefings useful then we stop watching them or the government stops doing them daily...would we prefer that? And I am also clear that this is really difficult and uncertain and that the government can only be on top of things as best they can...and I agree that trying to put timescales on any of this is not appropriate.

If the answers to essentially the same questions are clear and consistent then there are no issues. It is when responses start sounding evasive that confidence might start to wane. So always put the best ministers up front to do the briefings. And make sure they are fully briefed. Most are doing as well as can be expected in the circumstances.

The most repeated questions are around PPE and testing. We have been assured repeatedly that testing will be 100,000 a day by end of April - that was the government commitment. I think it reasonable then for us to know how well things are progressing towards that commitment. We are currently at 25,000 a day. The government briefing tells us every day of the current number, but it is I think reasonable then to ask the question about the gap.
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Why is it, reading your posts, that you make conciliatory general statements, but then it isn't long before you get to the sniping bit. E.g testing at 100,000.
I believed when that target was first mentioned, that it was exactly that, a target. You , however, want the press to badger why not achieved, and if not there is a leaping on a grievous fault , incompetence or worse still lies.
There's plenty a slip 'tween cup.....etc.
Not always because of a mendacious government, which is what it seems some journos want to believe.
I've likened this crisis to war. And as in war, things don't always go right.
Some battles are lost, hopefully this war will be won.
 
From looking throughout the world it is possible that the governments can both do the best they can based on their natural competences and the state of society that they have fostered, but also it can not be good enough, due to their innate incompetence and the state of society they have fostered. The two are not mutually exclusive. It's like me at golf, I'm doing my best but I am still pretty rubbish at it.
 
Kaz said:
From what we read/hear (if we believe the various sources), some hospitals have more PPE than they need and some don't have what they need. Sounds like a failure at national/government level to me.
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It has been stated over and over that the Government are not responsible for ordering ppe, it's done by the local health authority. Sounds like a failure of you to keep informed to me.
 
Kaz said:
From what we read/hear (if we believe the various sources), some hospitals have more PPE than they need and some don't have what they need. Sounds like a failure at national/government level to me.
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So some hospitals have asked for too much and some not enough? Which would make it a local issue rather than national.
 
Kaz said:
My point being that we experiencing a pandemic which is putting unprecedented pressure on supply chains and that requires national coordination to ensure stocks reach the places that need it rather than forcing local authorities to compete with each other.

Love the snippy dig too - you haven't changed a bit.
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the government pay the NHS to do this work for them. I think its too much to ask a government official to visit each hospital with a pencil and count what they need. hospitals have they're own department for this. but maybe they just can't get the stuff they're ordering. however, fish has given his view, I have heard another from a colleagues wife and at this very moment all fire stations in Staffordshire are storing large stocks off PPE too. its all seems to me that communication has broken down. maybe its the governments fault, maybe it isn't. I have no answers
 
Just because a hsopeital is supplied with enough PPE doesnt mean to say they have enough PPE when they need it. Theres been quite a few instances of PPE being stolen from hospitals leaving them short. Has that been factored in?
 
Mudball said:
Amanda .. I am going to disagree.. this is ultra omnishambles from the Govt. apparently there is PPE but they could not get it out in sufficient quantity and quality to the front line.

Would we ask our Army boys and girls to go to the frontline but not give them guns & armour. Every frontline worker without PPE is at risk. The new PHE guideline of work without ppe is diabolical. Drs and nurses signed up to save lives not to kill themselves.

Our local GP is buying PPE directly from Far East, Germany etc. They have turned to fund raising platforms to get this.

I speak as a husband of an NHS worker and I know the number of calls they have been on trying to figure out PPE and guidelines. She still does her job but every time she goes to her clinic, we as a family say a silent prayer. Every time she coughs, I sh*t myself.

So every time I hear some one from the frontline berates the lack of PPE, I feel like throwing the remote at the TV.

Without people like Fish, we would be in a worse place. But unfortunately we can’t say we have done enough... Hannock’s magic wand is the same as May’s magic money tree..

.. rant over
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Fish hit nail on the head. To many Trusts working independently which anyone can see would cause supply chain issues and a lot of hoarding. Is it a shambles, yes because of the fact that to many trusts are acting independently. When this is over they will be finding PPE lying around in store rooms that people never knew where there.

Did the troops go to war without the necessary kit, many times, however that doesn't make it right that trusts are failing their staff.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
I don’t disagree on exit strategy - or on your last sentence.

But they could tell us the key metrics that they will use to inform the strategy. I believe the Scottish FM may be thinking of doing that next week. So for instance...positive antibody testing is clearly a metric - and so when a figure of 95% is reached for that metric that would be a point at which the government would be able to do what? Could they do something at 75% or at any other level combined with other indicators and metrics with all necessary caveats.

I don’t see the risk - even for the less than fully attentive - in doing that, and it gives me confidence in there being a way out of this that isn’t like Trump tapping the side of his head when asked the same question.
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The key metrics to an exit strategy was laid out in the briefing.
 
Kaz said:
My point being that we experiencing a pandemic which is putting unprecedented pressure on supply chains and that requires national coordination to ensure stocks reach the places that need it rather than forcing local authorities to compete with each other.

Love the snippy dig too - you haven't changed a bit.
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Just means some trusts are over ordering.
 
We vote a government in to look after our best interests... If they, the government, choose to sub off any part of their responsibility to a third party and that third party has failings/shortcomings... It should be down to government to shoulder responsibility and fully address the failings/shortcomings...

IMO
 
Hacker Khan said:
From looking throughout the world it is possible that the governments can both do the best they can based on their natural competences and the state of society that they have fostered, but also it can not be good enough, due to their innate incompetence and the state of society they have fostered. The two are not mutually exclusive. It's like me at golf, I'm doing my best but I am still pretty rubbish at it.
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Well, yes, but then would it be fair for your PP or the spectators to keep saying to you " why aren't you playing better. You said you would. What are you keeping from me ? Etc etc?
 
bluewolf said:
Ok, so I’d be grateful for some clarity (Genuine question before the usual suspects turn up with the usual snarky comments).

Last week, when a lack of PPE was reported, it was explained on here that there was plenty of PPE but that the logistics and the performance of individual trusts was at fault. However, this week, the lack of PPE
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If you want to know what the lifting of lockdown will look like then presumably the best bet is to follow Denmark, Austria, Estonia and a few others, Germany probably. They are ahead of us and are starting to lift restrictions. It is logical that our govt will be watching what happens in those countries, what works, what doesn't, and use it as a blueprint for us.

I doubt they would go completely off piste on lifting restrictions compared to other countries so the above makes sense, to me anyway ?.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
If you want to know what the lifting of lockdown will look like then presumably the best bet is to follow Denmark, Austria, Estonia and a few others, Germany probably. They are ahead of us and are starting to lift restrictions. It is logical that our govt will be watching what happens in those countries, what works, what doesn't, and use it as a blueprint for us.

I doubt they would go completely off piste on lifting restrictions compared to other countries so the above makes sense, to me anyway ?.
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I've always thought that perhaps the government purposely delayed our lock down to be behind other countries. a little bit like letting your colleagues walk through the mine field first. at least then you'll know where to step?
 
hovis said:
the government pay the NHS to do this work for them. I think its too much to ask a government official to visit each hospital with a pencil and count what they need. hospitals have they're own department for this. but maybe they just can't get the stuff they're ordering. however, fish has given his view, I have heard another from a colleagues wife and at this very moment all fire stations in Staffordshire are storing large stocks off PPE too. its all seems to me that communication has broken down. maybe its the governments fault, maybe it isn't. I have no of
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Things being as they NOW are, why cannot a group of civil servants be set up in a couple of rooms to telephone each hospital to find out who has excess ppe and who hasn't enough. Answers should be immediate.
Then get couriers, pretty damn quick to go and pick it up and take it to where needed.
Like Churchill - endorse it "Action this day"
 
MegaSteve said:
We vote a government in to look after our best interests... If they, the government, choose to sub off any part of their responsibility to a third party and that third party has failings/shortcomings... It should be down to government to shoulder responsibility and fully address the failings/shortcomings...

IMO
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Agree, bring the NHS back under one umbrella and get rid of trusts, get rid of their CEOs and staff that aren't trained in the rolls the might be doing. Save a fortune.
 
Swinglowandslow said:
Things being as they NOW are, why cannot a group of civil servants be set up in a couple of rooms to telephone each hospital to find out who has excess ppe and who hasn't enough. Answers should be immediate.
Then get couriers, pretty damn quick to go and pick it up and take it to where needed.
Like Churchill - endorse it "Action this day"
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First you need the trust to admit it and as they will operate on a belts and braces strategy they will be very reluctant to give a true figure.
 
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