Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

[Lord Tyrion]

In a rural area it is not unusual to have to drive for a walk. It sounds daft but there can be fewer pavements and it is not as safe to walk on the roads in winter light. I'm not advocating driving 10 miles + for a walk but up to 5 miles seems reasonable enough.

Did Wales not have a 5 mile restriction? I'd have no problem if they brought that in.

 

[GB72]

Why not concentrate on those breaking the guidance? You only need 1 person not following the rules and being positive to infect any amount of people they come into contact with.

Masks, why do we allow “ medical exemptions” for people to not wear one. I refer back to my previous comment, and seeing as the virus is a respiratory illness anyone with issues breathing in a mask shouldn’t be out.....surely.?

I think the point is that it may be counter productive. Agree about the one person but if that situation is then reported in the press in such a way to suggest that everyone is breaking the rules, a dozen more people may then breach the rule because they are fed up and the fact that they feel in the minority by complying means that they feel that it is OK in their mind. Alternatively, there a lots of stories about people being compliant and those dozen people may feel more guilty about the idea of breaching the rules and stay home.

Another example is his current one about the police being heavy handed on the 2 people walking. The press focus on this has pointed the narrative towards what you can get away with and perhaps lessened the perceived threat of a fine and so may have done damage to overall compliance by focusing on one incident that the policy may or may not have got wrong.

 

[SocketRocket]

Rules should be clear and unambiguous. It's not fair on the Police or Public if they need to make a personal decision on what 'Local' means. It should either be within your local postcode or say five miles then everyone knows right from wrong. The Picnic issue was just plain daft.

 

[oxymoron]

Neither of us are fully aware of the circumstances, but given that this was my former field of expertise, I’ve got a couple of bob that says the young ladies version of events is further from the truth than Plod’s.

Not Poilce bashing as i believe they are in an impossible position, however your statement does nothing to help suggesting , without proof they were lying or exaggerating in which case causes further angst towards officers doing an impossible job implementing these "guidelines" ,i am not aware that they are actual laws but happy to be proven wrong.
If it is as stated by the Police , why not release bodycam evidence ? If indeed they were equipped with them ? Surely a word with them would have sufficed instead of using a sledgehammer to crack , in this case , a small nut ?
And if indeed the officer classes a coffee\tea as a picnic ,, well we all need to step back and consider what we are doing and if indeed it is in the guidelines .
As i said i am not anti Police but sometimes you wonder what goes through some officers heads and this gives other officers a bit of a bad rep .

I await the bashing ,,,

 

[PJ87]

Not Poilce bashing as i believe they are in an impossible position, however your statement does nothing to help suggesting , without proof they were lying or exaggerating in which case causes further angst towards officers doing an impossible job implementing these "guidelines" ,i am not aware that they are actual laws but happy to be proven wrong.
If it is as stated by the Police , why not release bodycam evidence ? If indeed they were equipped with them ? Surely a word with them would have sufficed instead of using a sledgehammer to crack , in this case , a small nut ?
And if indeed the officer classes a coffee\tea as a picnic ,, well we all need to step back and consider what we are doing and if indeed it is in the guidelines .
As i said i am not anti Police but sometimes you wonder what goes through some officers heads and this gives other officers a bit of a bad rep .

I await the bashing ,,,

Also the fine has been rescinded

Implies was incorrectly applied

 

[GB72]

Rules should be clear and unambiguous. It's not fair on the Police or Public if they need to make a personal decision on what 'Local' means. It should either be within your local postcode or say five miles then everyone knows right from wrong. The Picnic issue was just plain daft.

Thing is you cannot win, you say 5 miles and the stories will be out about people living 6 miles from their nearest walk etc. It just needs common sense. If everything is as has been stated in the recent case then 5 miles and a walk with coffee would seem reasonable and the police a bit OTT but then again a point was clearly being made on a national level that enforcement was to be taken far more seriously this time.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It wouldn't be as busy as during daytime, but I am pretty sure they could find enough customers to keep a few sites going.

So why are those in charge telling us there is no demand! I guess the likely answer strays straight into the political arena. But I want to have my vaccination asap and so I want to know who is deciding that there is no demand and I want to know the basis upon which that decision and statement has been made.

 

[DanFST]

So why are those in charge telling us there is no demand. I guess the likely answer strays straight into the political arena. But I want to have my vaccination asap and so I want to know who is deciding that there is no demand and I want to know the basis upon which that decision and statement has been made.

I think you know the answer.


Otherwise you have to say there is not enough supply, which is quite obvious and acceptable. However, imagine how that will sound and be reported!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Cressida Dick says you leave your front door ( either walk or ride a bike) and return to your front door. That will do for me. Any exercise that means getting in your car is not local.

But the guidelines you published says you can travel in local area, I disagree with your definition, so we are both right and both wrong! It’s not straightforward or simple.

 

[Ethan]

So why are those in charge telling us there is no demand! I guess the likely answer strays straight into the political arena. But I want to have my vaccination asap and so I want to know who is deciding that there is no demand and I want to know the basis upon which that decision and statement has been made.

It is a more complicated issue than it seems. First you need vaccine. Many places don't have enough. Second, you need staff. If you pout people on nights, they are not available during the days, so it is a zero sum game. Third, you need demand. I think we have the third, but not the first and second. If supplies come through in large quantities, and the process of training people does away with a lot of the unnecessary stuff, then I think much broader hours will follow. I contacted NHS Professionals and a vaccinator recruitment company in early Dec, provided my GMC Number and credentials and I haven't yet had more than a generic reply.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Why not concentrate on those breaking the guidance? You only need 1 person not following the rules and being positive to infect any amount of people they come into contact with.

Masks, why do we allow “ medical exemptions” for people to not wear one. I refer back to my previous comment, and seeing as the virus is a respiratory illness anyone with issues breathing in a mask shouldn’t be out.....surely.?

I am not alone in thinking that the issue is not simply that relatively small number of individuals breaking the rules/guidelines/laws - but those many more taking advantage of what we are allowed to do rather than adhering what the CMO exhorts us to do - and that is to stay at home and only go out for short period of exercise or when absolutely essential shopping requires you to go to a store.

 

[SatchFan]

Looking at the newspaper pictures of the PM on his seven mile bike ride I was fascinated that he seemed to have changed his clothes three times on the journey.

 

[Ethan]

Cressida Dick says you leave your front door ( either walk or ride a bike) and return to your front door. That will do for me. Any exercise that means getting in your car is not local.

That is a rather stupid statement from Dick. Not everybody wants to walk, it may not be suitable to ride a bike and the journey makes no flipping difference. Plod needs to concentrate on the stuff that is important and not persecuting people who take care to go to somewhere quiet and suitable.

 

[PJ87]

So why are those in charge telling us there is no demand! I guess the likely answer strays straight into the political arena. But I want to have my vaccination asap and so I want to know who is deciding that there is no demand and I want to know the basis upon which that decision and statement has been made.

Last night it wasn't the demand issue it was the most efficient way apparently

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It is a more complicated issue than it seems. First you need vaccine. Many places don't have enough. Second, you need staff. If you pout people on nights, they are not available during the days, so it is a zero sum game. Third, you need demand. I think we have the third, but not the first and second. If supplies come through in large quantities, and the process of training people does away with a lot of the unnecessary stuff, then I think much broader hours will follow. I contacted NHS Professionals and a vaccinator recruitment company in early Dec, provided my GMC Number and credentials and I haven't yet had more than a generic reply.

Yes I appreciate that the logistics might be difficult at present and the volumes of the vaccine required might not yet be flowing. But I myself am not considering this as being essential immediately - but something that can be planned for; recruited and trained for; with all logistics put in place - then initiated and ramped up once we have the Phase 1 vaccinations done - if constraints on the logistics demand that we wait to ensure that we get that done asap.

The statement was not that we couldn't do it due to the logistics and the need to focus on Phase 1 vaccinations - rather that there was no demand. Poppycock.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Last night it wasn't the demand issue it was the most efficient way apparently

Apologies if I misheard. My understanding came from what I was being informed of by Nick Ferrari on LBC this morning. I'm thinking that - yes - open all hours might not be most efficient approach when resource and vaccine are limited as they both currently are. But we can recruit and plan for when vaccine volumes hit the volumes government is expecting and take advantage of any public willingness to get vaccinated whenever.

 

[Ethan]

Yes I appreciate that the logistics might be difficult at present and the volumes of the vaccine required might not yet be flowing. But I myself am not considering this as being essential immediately - but something that can be planned for; recruited and trained for; with all logistics put in place - then initiated and ramped up once we have the Phase 1 vaccinations done - if constraints on the logistics demand that we wait to ensure that we get that done asap.

The statement was not that we couldn't do it due to the logistics and the need to focus on Phase 1 vaccinations - rather that there was no demand. Poppycock.

I wasn't criticising the comment on demand, I agree there is demand. The logistics are to get a lorryload of vaccine and use, under supervision, people who have been trained to give IM injections. That's it. IM injection is not a very technically demanding task. Diversity and radicalisation training are not needed. Train them onsite in an hour, practice giving injections of placebo into an orange and off you go.

 

[Ethan]

Why not concentrate on those breaking the guidance? You only need 1 person not following the rules and being positive to infect any amount of people they come into contact with.

Masks, why do we allow “ medical exemptions” for people to not wear one. I refer back to my previous comment, and seeing as the virus is a respiratory illness anyone with issues breathing in a mask shouldn’t be out.....surely.?

Depends what that one person is doing. If they are walking outside 1.9m from a friend while drinking coffee, they should be politely reminded to socially distance slightly better but no more.

If they are holding a house party with others, they should be arrested.

On the medical exemptions, it is, in my opinion, ridiculous that people can self-certify. Masks do not interfere with breathing in or out, many asthmatic theatre buses and surgeons demonstrate this daily, so the valid reasons for exemptions are things like trigeminal neuralgia, a painful condition of the face triggered by contact, and some psychiatric and behavioural conditions, but not general everyday self-diagnosed phobias. People who do not wear a mask, whether valid or not, are at greater risk of both getting but also transmitting, so if genuinely unable to wear one, should not be able to freely move around places where masks are required. Why should I have to accept the risk of someone she's imagined pseudophobia?

 

[drdel]

It's not the logistics. You need enough stuff to put in the 'trucks'.

 

[Ethan]

Neither of us are fully aware of the circumstances, but given that this was my former field of expertise, I’ve got a couple of bob that says the young ladies version of events is further from the truth than Plod’s.

Well, then the police have committed two mistakes if indeed the fines really were justified, wrongly retracting the fines and then failing to clarify what are justifiable reasons there are for issuing them, thus encouraging others to take the proverbial too. That is exactly what causes a lack of public trust in the rules. But, as presented in the media, I think most reasonable people consider them to have been a major overstretch. Sand Derbyshire Plod appears to have previous in this area.