Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

[williamalex1]

Actually - you have reminded me that I already have a cheap LG (Android) phone that I could use - we bought it when we were in Oz so that we could have an Oz telephone mobile number and a Telstra SIM. That aside - as a perhaps temp measure my work phone is Android and maybe I can download the app onto that.

Hugh do you still have the same one as last year ?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Hugh do you still have the same one as last year ?

ah - you found it Billy...must have left it in your clubhouse...

 

[Mudball]

I have a relatively recent iPhone, so can download it, but I think there is a valid point to be made. It is normal practice to determine the uptakability (?) of an app by the desired target audience. For this app, you need to start with the smartphone audience, so you lose some older people and technophobes right away, then if it has to be certain platforms or reasonably recent you will lose some more, and those losses all eat into the uptake rate you require.

Adopting a monastic life of seclusion like bobmac is doable for a short period but it starts to get difficult after a while.

Between Apple and Android, i suspect you have 95-98% coverage of the U.K. market. You could argue the 5% is difficult to reach.
Within that population, you need folks with a phone hardware that is capable of running the contact tracer software (which is part of the NHS App). These would be on relatively newer phones and by corollary need new software. So in theory you could have an iPhone 4 but you won’t be able to use the App.
Not much you can do about it. It will be paper and pencil for them.

 

[Ethan]

Between Apple and Android, i suspect you have 95-98% coverage of the U.K. market. You could argue the 5% is difficult to reach.
Within that population, you need folks with a phone hardware that is capable of running the contact tracer software (which is part of the NHS App). These would be on relatively newer phones and by corollary need new software. So in theory you could have an iPhone 4 but you won’t be able to use the App.
Not much you can do about it. It will be paper and pencil for them.

That is 95% of those who have a smartphone, and of those a proportion will have an older phone or be put off by all the privacy hullaballoo. If you are selling a consumer product, you might be delighted with what is left, but if you are depending on this to rectify a dysfunctional track and trace system, that is a different matter.

 

[robinthehood]

That is 95% of those who have a smartphone, and of those a proportion will have an older phone or be put off by all the privacy hullaballoo. If you are selling a consumer product, you might be delighted with what is left, but if you are depending on this to rectify a dysfunctional track and trace system, that is a different matter.

You have to draw the line somewhere. 5 years seem reasonable enough.

 

[KenL]

Older phones cannot download the app as they do not have the capability of accurately judging the distance required, 2m. Don't blame others for this. No one realised 5 years ago that a phone would be required to accurately bluetooth judge a 2m distance.

This is an issue for all countries as most are using the Google/apple system.

I do not believe that Bluetooth can judge that people (devices) are within 2 metres.

A device inside a bag full or clutter is not the same as a device sitting out in the open.

Bluetooth is simply a digital connection between devices. You either can or cannot transfer data between them.

Unless someone can say with all certainty, phones do not have a proximity detector that operates over Bluetooth.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Some extra guidance..

snip
<
people have noticed that while you can log in you cannot log out, and even if you soon leave the app thinks you are still there until midnight unless you log in somewhere else.
The point however of the QR scan is just to register your presence at that location rather than your proximity to someone infectious, which is registered via the Bluetooth contact-tracing feature.
If the location is later identified as a virus hotspot then an alert may be sent out to anyone who scanned a QR code there - not to self-isolate, but to be on the lookout for any symptoms of the virus.
>

Brilliant, thank you. I feel happier reading that ?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I do not believe that Bluetooth can judge that people (devices) are within 2 metres.

A device inside a bag full or clutter is not the same as a device sitting out in the open.

Bluetooth is simply a digital connection between devices. You either can or cannot transfer data between them.

Unless someone can say with all certainty, phones do not have a proximity detector that operates over Bluetooth.

The whole point of this app, the reason it doesn't work on older phones, is that it can judge this distance. They are pinging against each other apparently.

 

[SocketRocket]

That is 95% of those who have a smartphone, and of those a proportion will have an older phone or be put off by all the privacy hullaballoo. If you are selling a consumer product, you might be delighted with what is left, but if you are depending on this to rectify a dysfunctional track and trace system, that is a different matter.

Isn't it the realism of the way the World has moved on though. Software development moves on and it's not possible to compile systems such that they can be used on older hardware, the processors and memory are just not up to running the processes at a speed that people would find acceptable. It's rather like the way technology moves on in things like cars, televisions etc, we cannot expect our old models to give us the latest features. Some phones are very expensive and out of some people's price range but there are some excellent ones at a very reasonable price that are more than capable of running the latest applications.

 

[Beezerk]

The whole point of this app, the reason it doesn't work on older phones, is that it can judge this distance. They are pinging against each other apparently.

Agreed but Ken's point was it can't tell whether you are 1M, 2M or 5M away from another phone. Or at least not that i'm aware of.

 

[Jamesbrown]

Agreed but Ken's point was it can't tell whether you are 1M, 2M or 5M away from another phone. Or at least not that i'm aware of.

I have tile trackers in my car keys and wallet.
Works via Bluetooth. If I misplace it I open the app and and it will tell me graphically how close I am.

I wasn’t aware Bluetooth tech allowed that before and was just for data transfer.

 

[robinthehood]

I have tile trackers in my car keys and wallet.
Works via Bluetooth. If I misplace it I open the app and and it will tell me graphically how close I am.

I wasn’t aware Bluetooth tech allowed that before and was just for data transfer.

Just basic signal strength tracking.

 

[SocketRocket]

Agreed but Ken's point was it can't tell whether you are 1M, 2M or 5M away from another phone. Or at least not that i'm aware of.

It uses signal strength to determine the distance.

 

[Beezerk]

It uses signal strength to determine the distance.

As already said though, there are a multitude of reasons why signal strength could vary. I'm not too fussed btw, I think I'd be worried if I was 20m from a Covid carrier never mind 2m. I'm more interested in how the technology works ?

 

[KenL]

It uses signal strength to determine the distance.

A digital signal does not have strength, it is either received or it isn't.
A digital radio transmission just goes garbled or cuts out. There's no real in between.

Update.. https://forums.ghielectronics.com/t/bluetooth-measure-distance-between-two-devices/10413

 

[Ethan]

You have to draw the line somewhere. 5 years seem reasonable enough.

OK, but this is not about denying features to part of the potential customer base, a normal commercial tradeoff, it is about giving up data and control over the pandemic that is crippling the country.

 

[robinthehood]

A digital signal does not have strength, it is either received or it isn't.
A digital radio transmission just goes garbled or cuts out. There's no real in between.

Update.. https://forums.ghielectronics.com/t/bluetooth-measure-distance-between-two-devices/10413

Holy BT 4 batman..
Have you any idea how old that thread is ......

 

[KenL]

Have you any idea how old that thread is ......

Show me evidence that phones have in built capability to define otherwise.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

This is all I can find on how the App “communicates” not tech savvy, but may help some.

The app is powered by an Apple and Google-developed system, using Bluetooth to keep an anonymous log of close contacts who have come within two metres of a person for 15 minutes or longer.

If two people who are using the app are in close contact to one another for more than five minutes, they will exchange keys, or Bluetooth "digital handshakes". The Bluetooth signal strength is used to measure proximity.

 

[Old Skier]

All well and good - but not really that much consolation. Besides - the app was supposed to be part of an e2e world-class integrated solution for Test, Track and Trace - and neither my wife nor myself or our phones - can play a part in that world-class solution.

Brilliant...so a lot of money (£1bn I heard mention this morning) is spent developing an all-singing all -dancing solution to cover all aspects of the 3Ts - yet it is a solution that only a specific part of the population can use. Like so much in the work of IT and business - a solution succeeds or fails on the strength of it's weakest link. I fear that this one will fail to meet it's primary objective.

But hey - silver lining is that some IT solution providers and a load of consultants will have made £££s out of this and with any luck they pay tax on it that will feed into the countries depleted coffers.

Maybe the world class system was for those with world class up to date equipment. You know very well that the alternative is pen and paper, you are just on one of your normal digs.