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Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

woofers said:
Maybe the faith discussion could have its own thread ?
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I don't think it should have a thread at all because there are to many people that jump on it to degrade it and belittle people like SILH who has his faith. As is evident in the thread last week that was created that got locked after what 2 pages at most.

People use others faith on here and social media in general to belittle them or take potshots instead of understanding some people merely have beliefs that don't match their own.

Much better we get this back on track and let those that have faith take solace in that in their own way and those that don't simply don't get a place to point score.
 
Swinglowandslow said:
Look, you can't really have a God who can or cannot, or will or will not behave in accordance with your values or beliefs. That's just crazy mixed up thinking.
And, just a mite convenient, of course.
God is either omnipotent, the creator of everything, -or there isn't a God.
You are having your cake , and eating it.
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Crikey, even I, as someone without faith, can see all the flaws in that one.

Let's not turn the thread into a faith bashing exercise. There's enough of that in the "normal world". How about we stick to the subject of the virus?
 
woofers said:
Does anyone have the current utilisation of the pop up Nightingale Hospitals ? Are they making a difference yet ?

I'm a bit irritated that the government ministers are getting the blame for virtually everything especially those things outwith their direct control.

What about the accountability of the people managing the NHS Trusts ? Was it the Governments duty to equip Care Homes with PPE ? What about the Care Home owners responsibility ?

There is a lot of analysis and criticism being done with the benefit of hindsight, but as a former employee in the airport sector, I like to offer 2 real life analogies ;

Should an airport spend a lot of money stockpiling snow clearing equipment which will sit idle for most of time, not knowing if and when it may be used, at the expense of other capital equipment and facilities ? I can tell you the airlines and passengers want the other facilities now, but will complain like crazy if the snow falls and can't be cleared.

The pilot that landed the aircraft in the Hudson River was criticised after the event when the 'experts data' showed that he could have returned the aircraft to an airport within albeit fine margins. It was only when the 'experts' in the aftermath inquiry / investigation mocked up the situation in a simulator was it revealed that making decisions in real time is a whole lot different to carrying out perfected analysis routines. None of the pilots in the simulated real time scenario could get the aircraft back to an airport. The pilot, Chesley Sullenberger saved many lives, but there were people out there, 'experts' after the event, calling for his head.

Let's hope we don't get into a similar situation here, I don't believe anyone in government or authority isn't doing their best to sort this out, and people with choices to make are doing what they think is right, right now.
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I agree now isn’t the time to get political just for the sake of it, but probably like Airports, not all Care Homes fit one scenario, some are private and some are public owned, but isn’t it the duty of any Government to look after ALL its citizens in these unprecedented times.

Surely a Government could state all Care Home workers must have the correct PPE and then help with the financing like they have in other areas.

Care homes house some of our most vulnerable and they need protecting.
 
Swinglowandslow said:
Look, you can't really have a God who can or cannot, or will or will not behave in accordance with your values or beliefs. That's just crazy mixed up thinking.
And, just a mite convenient, of course.
God is either omnipotent, the creator of everything, -or there isn't a God.
You are having your cake , and eating it.
Click to expand...

Well that assumes that there is, and always has been, a single understanding of what a God (of my understanding) is capable of, and a common understanding of what my God is capable of. And that simply isn't the case. It's a common argument made by those who don't believe about what those who do believe should believe in...

As I mentioned. Not all faiths and Christian denominations believe the same about their God; and what their God is responsible for and capable of.

And if it is as 'convenient' as you suggest - then so be it. I'll deal with that convenience.

But let's not argue about it. For most on here what I might have faith in is neither here nor there. It is indeed a difficult thing to deal with - when bad things happen to good people. But there we are.
 
bobmac said:
Page 1
Verse 1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
:censored:
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I'll repeat. In my belief mine isn't capable of doing everything. And that's that. Doesn't affect non-believers as they don't believe in anything in the Bible - especially page 1 verse 1 - so no big deal what I might believe or have faith in. Not a lot of point, I suggest, in me being told to believe something by someone who doesn't believe it :)

But enough.
 
pauldj42 said:
I agree now isn’t the time to get political just for the sake of it, but probably like Airports, not all Care Homes fit one scenario, some are private and some are public owned, but isn’t it the duty of any Government to look after ALL its citizens in these unprecedented times.

Surely a Government could state all Care Home workers must have the correct PPE and then help with the financing like they have in other areas.

Care homes house some of our most vulnerable and they need protecting.
Click to expand...

The govt don't have to say all Care home workers must have PPE. Its already covered from a Duty of Care perspective. Equally, for those care home owners that are hard of hearing, it could be mandated.

Thinking about it, I do wonder how many tight fisted care home owners are just chancing their arm and deliberately ignoring their Duty of Care.
 
Hobbit said:
The govt don't have to say all Care home workers must have PPE. Its already covered from a Duty of Care perspective. Equally, for those care home owners that are hard of hearing, it could be mandated.

Thinking about it, I do wonder how many tight fisted care home owners are just chancing their arm and deliberately ignoring their Duty of Care.
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Apologies, you explained it better than me by using the word mandated.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Well that assumes that there is, and always has been, a single understanding of what a God (of my understanding) is capable of, and a common understanding of what my God is capable of. And that simply isn't the case. It's a common argument made by those who don't believe about what those who do believe should believe in...

As I mentioned. Not all faiths and Christian denominations believe the same about their God; and what their God is responsible for and capable of.

And if it is as 'convenient' as you suggest - then so be it. I'll deal with that convenience.

But let's not argue about it. For most on here what I might have faith in is neither here nor there. It is indeed a difficult thing to deal with - when bad things happen to good people. But there we are.
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That’s fair enough, and we should accept other people’s beliefs ... bit of tolerance is required from all sides of the debate.

Back on topic, I think the criticism is a little early, get this over and done and then it’s full review and how are we going to deal with future episodes... things like stopping international travel ASAP, having capability to turn on mass production of essential basic equipment etc .. all of these topics should be discussed later.
Main priority is dealing and enforcing lock downs.
 
woofers said:
Does anyone have the current utilisation of the pop up Nightingale Hospitals ? Are they making a difference yet ?

I'm a bit irritated that the government ministers are getting the blame for virtually everything especially those things outwith their direct control.

What about the accountability of the people managing the NHS Trusts ? Was it the Governments duty to equip Care Homes with PPE ? What about the Care Home owners responsibility ?

There is a lot of analysis and criticism being done with the benefit of hindsight, but as a former employee in the airport sector, I like to offer 2 real life analogies ;

Should an airport spend a lot of money stockpiling snow clearing equipment which will sit idle for most of time, not knowing if and when it may be used, at the expense of other capital equipment and facilities ? I can tell you the airlines and passengers want the other facilities now, but will complain like crazy if the snow falls and can't be cleared.

The pilot that landed the aircraft in the Hudson River was criticised after the event when the 'experts data' showed that he could have returned the aircraft to an airport within albeit fine margins. It was only when the 'experts' in the aftermath inquiry / investigation mocked up the situation in a simulator was it revealed that making decisions in real time is a whole lot different to carrying out perfected analysis routines. None of the pilots in the simulated real time scenario could get the aircraft back to an airport. The pilot, Chesley Sullenberger saved many lives, but there were people out there, 'experts' after the event, calling for his head.

Let's hope we don't get into a similar situation here, I don't believe anyone in government or authority isn't doing their best to sort this out, and people with choices to make are doing what they think is right, right now.
Click to expand...

Re The Nightingale. Our close friend - the very senior ICU Nurse - was doing a shift on ICU in The Nightingale on Friday, leading a team of four looking after six patients in intensive care. Her team comprised a dentist, a critical care midwife, and a biomechanical engineer. A somewhat curious and rather worrying mix we thought at first. But on reflection it's a good use of the complementary skillsets that were available, and most probably able to provide the level of care required. I suspect this sort of team mix will be pretty common.
 
backwoodsman said:
Crikey, even I, as someone without faith, can see all the flaws in that one.

Let's not turn the thread into a faith bashing exercise. There's enough of that in the "normal world". How about we stick to the subject of the virus?
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That's all well and good, and I'd go along with that, no problem. But SIiLH is making statements about his religion on not a few occasions, and most of them unsolicited. He is promoting his beliefs, yet when they are challenged folks jump on the challenge as if it is an unwarranted attack on religion.
I have not seen many posts started out of the blue attacking SILH , or anyone else, about his faith. They almost all have been responses to him promoting his beliefs in threads, like this, that are not primarily to do with religion.
I'll keep my religious beliefs off this forum, if SILH does likewise.
Is that fair?
 
Swinglowandslow said:
That's all well and good, and I'd go along with that, no problem. But SIiLH is making statements about his religion on not a few occasions, and most of them unsolicited. He is promoting his beliefs, yet when they are challenged folks jump on the challenge as if it is an unwarranted attack on religion.
I have not seen many posts started out of the blue attacking SILH , or anyone else, about his faith. They almost all have been responses to him promoting his beliefs in threads, like this, that are not primarily to do with religion.
I'll keep my religious beliefs off this forum, if SILH does likewise.
Is that fair?
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If SILH’s beliefs help him cope with crisis and bring him comfort then why shouldn’t he mention it?
Why should any of us go “tit for tat” with him.
 
Kaz said:
Not when they are used to demonise and discriminate against others, as religion so frequently is.
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You know as well as I do that isn’t the religion that is the interpretation... it’s like a dog, none are dangerous just their owners.

I remember being told a good French phrase .. it was something about rights and how we all entitled to have them, but they should not infringe on others.
 
pauldj42 said:
If SILH’s beliefs help him cope with crisis and bring him comfort then why shouldn’t he mention it?
Why should any of us go “tit for tat” with him.
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It's OK - I'm not going to be doing any more here on this aspect of how I cope and try and rationalise the situation. Your words are appreciated.
 
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hovis said:
the media are now accusing the government of under reporting the figures by 10 to 15% as their numbers are not including deaths outside of hospitals. am I missing something? evey day I watch the government briefing and he says "now onto the next slide deaths inside our hospitals are". unless I am looking at this incorrectly the media are out of order on this one. this information for me has been clear from tee start. I've definitely heard the government say on a few occasions that the figures don't include deaths outside of hospitals!!
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Apparently there's a world standard in how deaths are reported in the current circumstances ??... And, by reporting deaths outside of a hospital the UK would be failing to meet it...
 
Having decided to stay at home, over the weekend, as we expected an increase of footfall locally... Which, by all accounts didn't materialise... We ventured out this morning... Realised it's not just the playing of golf I've been missing but actually, probably just as much, being outside amongst nature... Even though I've seen it many times before the sheer amount of extra foliage/coverage, on the trees/bushes, was quite noticeable over our last walk out last Thursday...
 
pauldj42 said:
If SILH’s beliefs help him cope with crisis and bring him comfort then why shouldn’t he mention it?
Why should any of us go “tit for tat” with him.
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yeah no one ever goes tit for tat on here on any other subject do they lol, why you think this will be any different. or even better, why is it ok to do so on other subjects but not this?
 
pauldj42 said:
Latest information upto 03rd April just released by ONS covering all deaths, not good reading sadly.

Coronavirus: One in five deaths now linked to virus https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52278825
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As you say... Not good reading at all...

Can't be many that aren't aware of a death down to covid... I've lost two of my extended family members... And, I doubt if I am alone in that regard...
 
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