Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

[D-S]

Interesting split of booster uptake by religion, ethnicity, affluence and region.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1484149220869353478

 

[Deleted member 25172]

Interesting split of booster uptake by religion, ethnicity, affluence and region.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1484149220869353478

I find it fascinating that he chooses the word "inequality" for something which is free and available for everyone.

 

[Ethan]

I’m not going to engage any further, as the outcome is always the same, and you are already trying to lead the discussion down that path. I’ve said what I wanted to say and am not going to be goaded, yet again, into an exchange which will result in this thread being locked for the umpteenth time.

Works for me.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

what a desperately poor, dramatic response

Is it though? I said last night how it seems we are nearing the end, but surely we must accept opinions on both sides, you yourself have been asking for measures to be lessened for nearly a year now, while SR thinks it’s too quick.

We hear and read statements about getting back to normal or living with it, sadly, I believe we’ll end up with a different normal, a normal some will not like or want to accept.

 

[Ethan]

I find it fascinating that he chooses the word "inequality" for something which is free and available for everyone.

I agree, there is ample access for all.

 

[Hobbit]

With the lifting of all coronavirus containment measures on the immediate horizon we have no real idea how we are going to manage my brother-in-laws possibly very high vulnerability to infection given his blood cancer (multiple myeloma) and pretty shot immune system.

It’s all very well saying we have to live with the virus, which in time of course we will have to do, but there do still seem to be quite a number of questions not yet resolved about the virus and variants, and the risk they present to the vulnerable. Unfortunately my BiLs condition is one of periodic and potentially quite serious relapse/recurrence so it is most likely not going to be the case of him recovering to a point he can just get on with living ‘as normal’…but we just don’t know…

OK it seems that the current main (Omicron) variant does not seem to present a great risk to the general vaccinated public, but for my BiL it feels he is probably going to have to be very careful about going out of the house and mixing with others, if he does mix at all, and we will have to be very aware of our own exposure to the virus as we do our best to provide him with the support he will therefore require. Because given the pressures, he isn‘t going to get that much from the state unless the state recognises the specific needs of the most vulnerable in a ‘we need to learn to live with it’ environment.

Hopefully in the coming weeks we will learn more about how much his immune system will recover over the coming months, and how much risk the coronavirus is likely to present to him on an ongoing ‘for ever’ basis.

Meanwhile my wife and I have to work out how we support him (and as she is in the same house - my 91yr old mil) at the same time protect him from infection, and clearly that includes infection that we might pick up. Noting the subject of this discussion, this uncertainty is all rather worrying for us.

If you took Covid out of the equation you might find your BiL would have to isolate/be extra careful anyway. Covid isn’t the only issue with those who are vulnerable. Good luck and best wishes.

 

[Hobbit]

Continental Europe has had covid passes, masks etc throughout the duration.

How has that worked for them since the initial wave?

Had Covid passes throughout the duration…? Passes here in Spain came in around the 20th Dec 2021 - hardly the duration.

The biggest successes/fire-breaks has been the quite draconian lockdowns.

 

[PNWokingham]

Is it though? I said last night how it seems we are nearing the end, but surely we must accept opinions on both sides, you yourself have been asking for measures to be lessened for nearly a year now, while SR thinks it’s too quick.

We hear and read statements about getting back to normal or living with it, sadly, I believe we’ll end up with a different normal, a normal some will not like or want to accept.

I have sympathy and understanding of caution (not drama), especially in the beginning of the covid journey that turned dramatically and quickly and was very worrying. But fast forward 2 years and a vacinated population, less deadly infection, natural imunity from infection etc etc. Omicrom is so infectious that i doubt wearing masks just in shops and transport will make a lot of difference going forward - hence, this and the other rules are not very effective at doing anything - and people are welcome to continue wearing masks if they are more comfortable doing so. Hence, to me, it is hard to make a logical, medeical, societal or financial reason for continuing with them because infection and further varients (hopefully no more deadly) are here to stay, at least for the next few years. So if not now then when? The new normal may very well be a different secenario from before for a small minority of the population - but legislation and rules will do nothing to change that. I think the public are ready for the end of these rules but i know there will be a relatively large minority of very vocal remoaners who will not. I worry about the severe economic damage caused for the next generation more than anything, given we are only at relatively bad seasonal flu death rates at the moment. Utility Bills could be 50% higher this next year, telco bills look like going up 10%, inflation in general is well over 5%, interest rates going up, government debt through 100% of GDP and servicing it will get a lot more expensive as interest rates rise, new 1.25% NI Health tax etc etc. Living standards are being are going to be squeezed like mad over the next couple of years. I am not saying that the current restrictions are a large squeeze on growth but they certainly dampen it and we need every ounce of it we can get. We need to go for big growth and quickly in the face of massive pressures - and that is not going to be easy

 

[Ethan]

I have sympathy and understanding of caution (not drama), especially in the beginning of the covid journey that turned dramatically and quickly and was very worrying. But fast forward 2 years and a vacinated population, less deadly infection, natural imunity from infection etc etc. Omicrom is so infectious that i doubt wearing masks just in shops and transport will make a lot of difference going forward - hence, this and the other rules are not very effective at doing anything - and people are welcome to continue wearing masks if they are more comfortable doing so. Hence, to me, it is hard to make a logical, medeical, societal or financial reason for continuing with them because infection and further varients (hopefully no more deadly) are here to stay, at least for the next few years. So if not now then when? The new normal may very well be a different secenario from before for a small minority of the population - but legislation and rules will do nothing to change that. I think the public are ready for the end of these rules but i know there will be a relatively large minority of very vocal remoaners who will not. I worry about the severe economic damage caused for the next generation more than anything, given we are only at relatively bad seasonal flu death rates at the moment. Utility Bills could be 50% higher this next year, telco bills look like going up 10%, inflation in general is well over 5%, interest rates going up, government debt through 100% of GDP and servicing it will get a lot more expensive as interest rates rise, new 1.25% NI Health tax etc etc. Living standards are being are going to be squeezed like mad over the next couple of years. I am not saying that the current restrictions are a large squeeze on growth but they certainly dampen it and we need every ounce of it we can get. We need to go for big growth and quickly in the face of massive pressures - and that is not going to be easy

Paul. You and people like you caused much of that by impeding an effective public health response, and thus prolonging the damage.

And when the dust settles, the biggest long term squeeze on growth will be ... you know what. I think you caused that too.

Growing your way out of an economic crisis is the refuge of despair.

 

[Foxholer]

...I worry about the severe economic damage caused for the next generation more than anything, given we are only at relatively bad seasonal flu death rates at the moment. Utility Bills could be 50% higher this next year, telco bills look like going up 10%, inflation in general is well over 5%...

You can't blame every issue on Covid and the reaction to it. Utility Bill increases, for example, are because of increases earlier in the supply chain.
It might 'only be at bad seasonal Flu rate', but that's in addition to any seasonal Flu, not 'instead of'.
And while Omicron is relatively mild (though thousands have died from it) it's likely there'll be another variant discovered too.
While I welcome the reduction on controls, I'm dubious about the sensibility and sceptical about the timing.

 

[Twire]

Can we keep politics out of the thread please...

 

[D-S]

You can't blame every issue on Covid and the reaction to it. Utility Bill increases, for example, are because of increases earlier in the supply chain.
It might 'only be at bad seasonal Flu rate', but that's in addition to any seasonal Flu, not 'instead of'.
And while Omicron is relatively mild (though thousands have died from it) it's likely there'll be another variant discovered too.
While I welcome the reduction on controls, I'm dubious about the sensibility and sceptical about the timing.

Do you know what the seasonal flu rate is this year? I know it was very low last year but have heard nothing about it this year.

 

[Foxholer]

Do you know what the seasonal flu rate is this year? I know it was very low last year but have heard nothing about it this year.

Slightly higher than last year.
Available on the usual sites, e.g. https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...d-19-surveillance-reports-2021-to-2022-season

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I have sympathy and understanding of caution (not drama), especially in the beginning of the covid journey that turned dramatically and quickly and was very worrying. But fast forward 2 years and a vacinated population, less deadly infection, natural imunity from infection etc etc. Omicrom is so infectious that i doubt wearing masks just in shops and transport will make a lot of difference going forward - hence, this and the other rules are not very effective at doing anything - and people are welcome to continue wearing masks if they are more comfortable doing so. Hence, to me, it is hard to make a logical, medeical, societal or financial reason for continuing with them because infection and further varients (hopefully no more deadly) are here to stay, at least for the next few years. So if not now then when? The new normal may very well be a different secenario from before for a small minority of the population - but legislation and rules will do nothing to change that. I think the public are ready for the end of these rules but i know there will be a relatively large minority of very vocal remoaners who will not. I worry about the severe economic damage caused for the next generation more than anything, given we are only at relatively bad seasonal flu death rates at the moment. Utility Bills could be 50% higher this next year, telco bills look like going up 10%, inflation in general is well over 5%, interest rates going up, government debt through 100% of GDP and servicing it will get a lot more expensive as interest rates rise, new 1.25% NI Health tax etc etc. Living standards are being are going to be squeezed like mad over the next couple of years. I am not saying that the current restrictions are a large squeeze on growth but they certainly dampen it and we need every ounce of it we can get. We need to go for big growth and quickly in the face of massive pressures - and that is not going to be easy

Sadly from my armchair I believe the economic damage will still be a factor for more than the next generation, but surely we need to go steady with repairing the economy as trying too fast too quickly could also be disatrous.

I hope I’m wrong, but I think we’ll be on and off the covid bus for the foreseeable future, the difference (I believe) with this and the flu is the long term effects and all ages being at risk, so maybe comparing it to the flu and how society treats it needs to be adressed.

My other thoughts move into the political arena, so unfortunately they’re out.

 

[SocketRocket]

As anyone suggested we do any of that?
Of course not, what a lazy argument

No, you're making a lazy argument by making that glib comment without explaining how my comments are wrong.

It has been suggested by some who want all restrictions removed, (including people infected isolating at all) and that Covid is no worse than seasonal flu, they don't consider it's on top of seasonal flu and how the NHS staff are absolutely worn out and demoralised by the pressures of dealing with Covid cases. Is that a lazy argument?

If we are prepared to remove all these restrictions in the face of these unprecedented infection levels and the associated hospitalisations and deaths then how high could these cases rise.

We have also been told that the delays in treating people in need of hospitalisation are unacceptable and Covid is the cause of their delay, so what's the answer to that one, it can only be leaving those seriously ill with Covid to get on with it while freeing up services for others. If that's not what's being suggested then tell me what is because without that explanation it's just lazy arguements.

 

[PNWokingham]

Paul. You and people like you caused much of that by impeding an effective public health response, and thus prolonging the damage.

And when the dust settles, the biggest long term squeeze on growth will be ... you know what. I think you caused that too.

Growing your way out of an economic crisis is the refuge of despair.

You sanctimonious xxx. "You and people.like you"! Stop harking on about the first month of the pandemic and thinking me and peple like me .. The medical profession was split at this time and that is the last I say on March 2020 that you keep harking on about. I am talking about now not 2 years ago and analysing the mistakes - and locking down too much is likely to be seen as much of a mistake as not locking down early enough at the start. You are a stuck record and lose all respect from the many really good/ informative insights from your massive chip-on-the-shoulder superior sniping.

 

[SocketRocket]

what a desperately poor, dramatic response

Because it flies in the face of your 'Just live with it' response?

 

[Ethan]

You sanctimonious xxx. "You and people.like you"! Stop harking on about the first month of the pandemic and thinking me and peple like me .. The medical profession was split at this time and that is the last I say on March 2020 that you keep harking on about. I am talking about now not 2 years ago and analysing the mistakes - and locking down too much is likely to be seen as much of a mistake as not locking down early enough at the start. You are a stuck record and lose all respect from the many really good/ informative insights from your massive chip-on-the-shoulder superior sniping.

It is not about the first month of the pandemic. It is about all of it, including now. The lesson that the public health response and economic response go hand in hand has been known for at least 100 years, and leading economists voiced the same point. Maybe not in the Torygraph, though, to be fair, where the opportunities for disaster capitalism were of greater interest. The clash between the two was a creation of certain [redacted] in constituencies like Wokingham, and the like. And the medical profession really wasn't split, the media loves skeptics and gives them too much publicity.

Locking down too much was never going to be seen, in public health terms, as being as bad as not locking down enough. Pandemics are very asymmetrical.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

No, you're making a lazy argument by making that glib comment without explaining how my comments are wrong.

It has been suggested by some who want all restrictions removed, (including people infected isolating at all) and that Covid is no worse than seasonal flu, they don't consider it's on top of seasonal flu and how the NHS staff are absolutely worn out and demoralised by the pressures of dealing with Covid cases. Is that a lazy argument?

If we are prepared to remove all these restrictions in the face of these unprecedented infection levels and the associated hospitalisations and deaths then how high could these cases rise.

We have also been told that the delays in treating people in need of hospitalisation are unacceptable and Covid is the cause of their delay, so what's the answer to that one, it can only be leaving those seriously ill with Covid to get on with it while freeing up services for others. If that's not what's being suggested then tell me what is because without that explanation it's just lazy arguements.

i don’t believe that’s what people are suggesting at all

I see the suggestions that the country needs to move on to learn to live with it just like we do with the flu each year

If people are at risk then they isolate , they wear masks , they don’t put themselves at risk

My daughter hasn’t seen her grandparents for nearly 2 years now so we have all made sacrifices

When masks stop being mandatory that doesn’t mean everyone must stop wearing masks - if people want to carry on wearing them then they can do

If people want to avoid crowded places then they can do

No one will be forced to do anything

And then we have 8 weeks to see how it goes before end of March for when full restrictions are lifted in regards isolation periods - the NHS will be assessed as we go along

its a light at the end of the tunnel that some need

The cost of Covid is great for a lot of people and it’s time to take steps to help everyone move on and start to live the new normal life for everyone.

 

[Hobbit]

i don’t believe that’s what people are suggesting at all

I see the suggestions that the country needs to move on to learn to live with it just like we do with the flu each year

If people are at risk then they isolate , they wear masks , they don’t put themselves at risk

My daughter hasn’t seen her grandparents for nearly 2 years now so we have all made sacrifices

When masks stop being mandatory that doesn’t mean everyone must stop wearing masks - if people want to carry on wearing them then they can do

If people want to avoid crowded places then they can do

No one will be forced to do anything

And then we have 8 weeks to see how it goes before end of March for when full restrictions are lifted in regards isolation periods - the NHS will be assessed as we go along

its a light at the end of the tunnel that some need

The cost of Covid is great for a lot of people and it’s time to take steps to help everyone move on and start to live the new normal life for everyone.

Well said Phil.

Lifting a restriction, or most/all of them isn’t irreversible. On a personal level, we had this conversation earlier today. I don’t want 5 years of restriction. Taking 5 off what few healthy years I might have before I start dribbling and doddering isn’t for me. I’m sensible enough to manage my own risks whilst also still having an eye on my greater responsibility to society.