Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

[PNWokingham]

It has also announced the measures it will take with the unvaccinated.

France registered 271,000 new cases yesterday and these measures have been taken in desperation, not because they think it's the best way to operate.

Desperation is necessity and reality as the best overall way to cope - not really any choice

 

[SocketRocket]

grow up. I included reference to Nordic neighbours that did way better on deaths than Sweden and all other EU countries. But Sweden did better than the EU average and several other large EU countries on deaths and all others economically - and may have done better on many other social and other medical issues.

Of course i am obsessed by the cost of restrictions - we are all going to be for the rest of our lives. Also, losses of life to covid will likely pale into insignificance compared to the deaths from the other diseases that have gone undiagnosed over the past couple of years and the loss of severvices than could have been improved over the coming decade from some of the £400bn+ we have borrowed through this period. This and the resulting inflation surge are direct results of covid restrictions, economic contractions and spending

You know that it's unreasonable to compare a country with the population density of Sweden to the UK and especially England.

Our problem in my opinion is that we've been too easy with our Covid restrictions, containing the virus spread and protecting the economy are intrinsically linked in my opinion. What do you think would happen to the health service if we just got on with it.

I assume by your comments on inflation and interest rates you didn't live through the 1970s and 1980s where the current interest and inflation rates would have been unthinkably low.

 

[SocketRocket]

Desperation is necessity and reality as the best overall way to cope - not really any choice

You however come across as suggesting these measures should be the norm as we get on with it.

 

[Ethan]

The global nature of it means that it will never be suppressed. The handling of the pandemic is so disparate that you cannot stop it. Vaccinations and masks. That is all you can do. We have to learn to live with it.

I would say we do have to learn to live with it, but not quite yet. The risk of a resurgence remains too high. At some point, which could be soon, but will be delayed the more we fart about with it, the level of immunity and the breadth off immunity (two different things) in the population will be enough that Covid settles into the background noise of common cold and flu. Improving the immunity means more boosters, scooping up stragglers and Djokovic supporters, and maintaining a bit of social distancing, i.e. care in crowded or badly ventilated places.

In my opinion, if learning to live with it right now means abandoning isolation and care in crowded places, then we will get bitten in the arse and it will only set us back further than ever. And there is no guarantee the next variant will be mild. There is no evolutionary pressure on Covid to get milder - it transmits before affecting the host, so doesn't need to be mild, it achieves its Darwinian objective once it transmits.

 

[road2ruin]

In my opinion, if learning to live with it right now means abandoning isolation and care in crowded places, then we will get bitten in the arse and it will only set us back further than ever. And there is no guarantee the next variant will be mild. There is no evolutionary pressure on Covid to get milder - it transmits before affecting the host, so doesn't need to be mild, it achieves its Darwinian objective once it transmits.

Not suggesting that we throw off the shackles however isn't the argument for our country about the 'next variant' largely pointless only on the basis that whilst we have a huge number of countries who have next to no vaccination operations, and unlikely to do so in the near future, the next variant(s) are inevitable? Obviously not keen on having a killer variant, prefer the milder ones however it's almost completely out of our control.

 

[PNWokingham]

You however come across as suggesting these measures should be the norm as we get on with it.

You think we have any other choice?

 

[SocketRocket]

You think we have any other choice?

Yes, I do and have already explained it.

 

[PNWokingham]

Yes, I do and have already explained it.

so wjat happens when/ if there are not enough front line medics to run the hospitals - and other emergency services? Do we let some who are isolating come back and ease the severe pressure or do we put that pain on those needing treatment? Given a choice i know which side i would choose

 

[Robster59]

You think we have any other choice?

Compulsory vaccination? It worked with Smallpox and Polio.

 

[Robster59]

Never thought I would see this in the
Guardian. The nanny state's mouthpiece publishing an article that basically says nannying isn't the answer.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... -scientist

saw that the other day and found myself agreeing with a piece in the Guardian! A rare event and echoes a lot of what i said last year in advocating the core strategy of protecting the vulnerable while keeping as much of the economy open as possible was a better solution than long blanket lock downs

You mean you agree with The Guardian because in this instance you agree with the articles, but on all other bits of their reporting where they don't match your views, you don't?

 

[Ethan]

Not suggesting that we throw off the shackles however isn't the argument for our country about the 'next variant' largely pointless only on the basis that whilst we have a huge number of countries who have next to no vaccination operations, and unlikely to do so in the near future, the next variant(s) are inevitable? Obviously not keen on having a killer variant, prefer the milder ones however it's almost completely out of our control.

Other variants are inevitable, hopefully not Variants Of Concern (VOC). Bad VOCs are more likely to evolve in partially immunised populations because the partially immunised can filter out some of the lightweight variants. I agree that countries with next to no coverage are also a problem, so we should be sending some vax their way.

 

[road2ruin]

Compulsory vaccination? It worked with Smallpox and Polio.

Not sure you can compare Covid with either of those though, for a lot of the age groups the vaccine probably carries as much if not more risk than the disease itself (I've tripled Vaxxed btw before there are calls of anti vaxer) and that's before you get into the ethical issues of compulsory vaccinations.

 

[ColchesterFC]

I was quoting Sweden compared to UK. Norway and Denmark were exceptional - both very wealthy countries but no denying they coped very well on deaths from covid - not too sure of their restrictive measures to other European countries such as Spain, Italy, France, UK, Portugal etc. Sweden coped better than UK, France, the EU and their GDP and extra borrowing was miles better than all of these. But the true effects of the deaths and social issues will not be fully understood for several years. But, I was also referring to what Professor Woolhouse was saying that it may have been a better result all round if we have focused massive efforts on protecting the vulnerable from the start rather than total lockdowns. Maybe yes, maybe no, maybe impossible to prove but certaimly worth thinking about. But the amount of death and other health issues caused from the last 2 years will be with us for a couple of generations and will manifest it very deeply in all areas of society - debt and rising interest being a major facor over the coming years

View attachment 40375View attachment 40375

But that's comparing apples to oranges. I could say that Sweden's outcomes were far worse than New Zealand which had an extremely strict lockdown so that proves that lockdowns work, but that also wouldn't be a fair comparison.

Sweden coped far less well in terms of deaths than it's Nordic neighbours, that's undeniable. Don't know the comparison in terms of the economies. Yes, Norway and Denmark are both very wealthy countries but so is Sweden.

 

[Robster59]

Not sure you can compare Covid with either of those though, for a lot of the age groups the vaccine probably carries as much if not more risk than the disease itself (I've tripled Vaxxed btw before there are calls of anti vaxer) and that's before you get into the ethical issues of compulsory vaccinations.

I'd question the first part of your statement, but I was mainly reacting to the question. Do you seriously think we would be able to do the Smallpox and Polio exercise in the modern world? No, because there are too many idiots believing conspiracy theories.

 

[PNWokingham]

You know that it's unreasonable to compare a country with the population density of Sweden to the UK and especially England.

Our problem in my opinion is that we've been too easy with our Covid restrictions, containing the virus spread and protecting the economy are intrinsically linked in my opinion. What do you think would happen to the health service if we just got on with it.

I assume by your comments on inflation and interest rates you didn't live through the 1970s and 1980s where the current interest and inflation rates would have been unthinkably low.

Population density - or least urbanisation is higher in Sweden than the UK - 88% compared to 83.9%

I did live through the 70s and 80s - but totally differnet scenario from now. We are coming out of covid (at least i hope we are) with house prices at record highs, income to house prices at record highs, government debt at record levels of 2.5 trillion (a 5 fold increase since 2005), government debt to GDP at record levels for several generations of 105% (it was circa 35% in 2005) and steady at 80% area 2014 to pre covid. Equity markets are at record highs, energy prices at record highs and interest rates are at record lows. Interest rates have starting pushing higher due to very strong inflation that may not be so transitory and QE will likely end this year. Taxes are going up, living conditions are going up in all areas. I am concerned that the impact of rising interest rates and all other factors could have a big negative on peoples' lives over the coming few years - hence the worry that we are at or near the end of covid restrictions so growth can be maximised against a very difficult backdrop

 

[Slime]

Compulsory vaccination? It worked with Smallpox and Polio.

Can't be done, the Human Rights issues will make sure of that.

 

[road2ruin]

Do you seriously think we would be able to do the Smallpox and Polio exercise in the modern world? No, because there are too many idiots believing conspiracy theories.

Fair enough, no argument from me on this.

 

[PNWokingham]

Compulsory vaccination? It worked with Smallpox and Polio.

A trcky one morally but given everything i would be in favour. Macron is pushing this through and threatening to pledging to “p--- off” France’s unvaccinated in denying them access to even more aspects of daily life. If it is a choice of this or universal restrictions i am in favour

 

[Crazyface]

The wife has had a bad cold for a couple of days, tested negative yesterday but positive today. I'm now starting to come down with similar symptoms, headache, sore throat, cold etc.
I've booked a PCR test for tomorrow morning, work won't be happy

How can the test be negative one day and positive the next? Only asking as I've got the same and tested ok yesterday. Loads off with it at work at the mo. I'm the savior. PS I found a load of meat OOD that looked perfect. The staff have had a field day !!!

 

[road2ruin]

A trcky one morally but given everything i would be in favour. Macron is pushing this through and threatening to pledging to “p--- off” France’s unvaccinated in denying them access to even more aspects of daily life. If it is a choice of this or universal restrictions i am in favour

I strongly disagree. Whilst for some ages the vaccine is a life saver there are other ages where the chances of the virus causing any particular issues are minute however the vaccine itself may cause life changing severe adverse reactions. Have a look at Maddie de Garay who took part in the Pfizer trial in the US, 12 years old and is now facing a lifetime (however long that lasts) of hospital visits and treatment. Her changes of facing a similar situation with the virus would have been far lower so why should other younger people be face with a roll of the dice just to protect those who are at risk?