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Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

For clarity, would those who agree that to not wear a mask in cinemas, theatres and nightclubs should remain unlawful, please say what they would expect to be done to enforce the law in the event of most people in these about to be opened places of entertainment refusing to wear a mask?
What would you expect to see happen?
Theorists need not reply??

I would keep it the law that you should wear masks on public transport.
 
Ethan said:
Most of the debate is about masks. I fail to see how the economy cannot open fully and still maintain masks on public transport, shops etc. Can you explain how the masks would keep your friends out of work?

A liberal democracy, as we used to have, does not allow people much scope to choose whether or not they harm others in major public health crises. Nor would it allow people to accept the hospitalisations and death of others just so they didn't feel offended by the requirement to wear a mask. Its very easy to type, 'OK, there'll be deaths, but not that many really and we need to move on'.
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Friends work in events - just like you know who - and they are currently still furloughed.

You may want masks, i fully agree with the restriction and the tone of the guidance to remove the law but advise caution

If even the wise and cautious sages from SAGE believe it is ok to open up and put the onus on the public due to the vaccine curtailing the large majority of deaths and serious illnessess then that should be good enough for most people - including me. And yes, time to move on and learn to live live with this horrible virus. There are untold how many thousands of deaths from other factors that have been undiagnosed because the focus was on covid.
 
ColchesterFC said:
And how do the two bits in bold work if one person is wearing a mask and trying to maintain distancing but the second person chooses not to wear a mask or maintain distancing? The person with the cautious attitude is doing their best to keep themselves and others safe but can't do that if others choose not to.
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there may be scenarios where this happens but they should be rare if the people who are cautious on distancing want to behave that way - public transport likely the biggest issue. Nothing will be perfect and i am sure there will be issues but people need to learn to adapt and the country to get on with "normality"
 
PNWokingham said:
Friends work in events - just like you know who - and they are currently still furloughed.

You may want masks, i fully agree with the restriction and the tone of the guidance to remove the law but advise caution

If even the wise and cautious sages from SAGE believe it is ok to open up and put the onus on the public due to the vaccine curtailing the large majority of deaths and serious illnessess then that should be good enough for most people - including me. And yes, time to move on and learn to live live with this horrible virus. There are untold how many thousands of deaths from other factors that have been undiagnosed because the focus was on covid.
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OK, so you can't answer why wearing masks will stifle the economy. It won't.

Advising caution is a complete waste of time and is, to borrow a phrase, gesture politics, to allow blame to be aimed at the public when the *** inevitably hits the fan.

The SAGE advice has not been published, but you would have to be very cloth-eared not to have detected that Chris Whitty was unimpressed with the plan to do away with masks, and said as much as he could as an employee, to the extent that Johnson changed his previous position live on TV. SAGE advice has been overlooked a number of times so far.

The fact that people have died from other conditions due to Covid does not mean that we now need to kill more people with Covid unnecessarily. Not sure why you want to do so.

The effectiveness of the vaccine to curtail those deaths, and all the other non-fatal effects you never mention, is not yet deep enough to throw away all the precautions at once.
 
Swinglowandslow said:
For clarity, would those who agree that to not wear a mask in cinemas, theatres and nightclubs should remain unlawful, please say what they would expect to be done to enforce the law in the event of most people in these about to be opened places of entertainment refusing to wear a mask?
What would you expect to see happen?
Theorists need not reply??

I would keep it the law that you should wear masks on public transport.
Click to expand...
My information is that (at least some) venues and nightclubs especially are unlikely to make wearing a mask a condition of entry, because there is too much risk of chaos outside, with some claiming government advise holds precedence over the views of the venue. And trying to maintain a strict mask policy at 11pm at night as lubricated nightclub goers look to enter the club; are not likely to want to wear one and will resist whatever.

As many smaller venues and clubs are really struggling they will have to open as they will be told that they can and so gov support will end. Likewise the few employees lucky enough to receive furlough payments will lose them as they can now work, and those who are getting nothing will have to take work that comes their way.

A double-vaccination cert might be required at some point, but as many if not most club goers are under 30 they won’t have that for quite some weeks - so in the first instance at least clubs will not require one. They might ask for a negative LF test result taken that day…though we know that for any individual that’s not much better than a toss of a coin, and can be copied/faked etc.
 
Ethan said:
OK, so you can't answer why wearing masks will stifle the economy. It won't.

Advising caution is a complete waste of time and is, to borrow a phrase, gesture politics, to allow blame to be aimed at the public when the *** inevitably hits the fan.

The SAGE advice has not been published, but you would have to be very cloth-eared not to have detected that Chris Whitty was unimpressed with the plan to do away with masks, and said as much as he could as an employee, to the extent that Johnson changed his previous position live on TV. SAGE advice has been overlooked a number of times so far.

The fact that people have died from other conditions due to Covid does not mean that we now need to kill more people with Covid unnecessarily. Not sure why you want to do so.

The effectiveness of the vaccine to curtail those deaths, and all the other non-fatal effects you never mention, is not yet deep enough to throw away all the precautions at once.
Click to expand...

thanks for your view. You know mine. Happy they have taken the steps they have. I never said wearing masks will stifle the economy but it is clearly harming the entire hospitality sector, even in the current "relatively free compared to before" state. But i don't like wearing masks even though i was happy to do so when we needed to. Now i believe that time has passed - albeit i will keep my mask and exercise my judgement to wear when i want in crowded spaces that can occur on public transport or if i was in the viscinity indoors with someone who is vulnerable
 
PNWokingham said:
thanks for your view. You know mine. Happy they have taken the steps they have. I never said wearing masks will stifle the economy but it is clearly harming the entire hospitality sector, even in the current "relatively free compared to before" state. But i don't like wearing masks even though i was happy to do so when we needed to. Now i believe that time has passed - albeit i will keep my mask and exercise my judgement to wear when i want in crowded spaces that can occur on public transport or if i was in the viscinity indoors with someone who is vulnerable
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Is it clearly hurting the hospitality sector? Can't people eat and drink in pubs and restaurants without masks? Do you think that cautious people will rush back to cinemas and other indoor places now that masks are not required. This step may hurt the hospitality sector more. How do you know if you are in the vicinity of someone at risk? Previously fit young people have died of Covid and some are in UK ICUs right now. Scanning the room to see if anyone looks rather doddery or has an oxygen cylinder with them probably will not suffice. Even if you exercise some well-intentioned caution, many others will not give a toss.
 
PNWokingham said:
Friends work in events - just like you know who - and they are currently still furloughed.

You may want masks, i fully agree with the restriction and the tone of the guidance to remove the law but advise caution

If even the wise and cautious sages from SAGE believe it is ok to open up and put the onus on the public due to the vaccine curtailing the large majority of deaths and serious illnessess then that should be good enough for most people - including me. And yes, time to move on and learn to live live with this horrible virus. There are untold how many thousands of deaths from other factors that have been undiagnosed because the focus was on covid.
Click to expand...

Rarely agree with the Star... but here it shows what our responsible citizens taking onus of something go about it...

_119392015_star-nc.png
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
My information is that (at least some) venues and nightclubs especially are unlikely to make wearing a mask a condition of entry, because there is too much risk of chaos outside, with some claiming government advise holds precedence over the views of the venue. And trying to maintain a strict mask policy at 11pm at night as lubricated nightclub goers look to enter the club; are not likely to want to wear one and will resist whatever.

As many smaller venues and clubs are really struggling they will have to open as they will be told that they can and so gov support will end. Likewise the few employees lucky enough to receive furlough payments will lose them as they can now work, and those who are getting nothing will have to take work that comes their way.

A double-vaccination cert might be required at some point, but as many if not most club goers are under 30 they won’t have that for quite some weeks - so in the first instance at least clubs will not require one. They might ask for a negative LF test result taken that day…though we know that for any individual that’s not much better than a toss of a coin, and can be copied/faked etc.
Click to expand...

I read what you're saying, H, but you don't seem to grasp that if things happen as your first paragraph suggests ( and I agree that mask wearing would not happen), and if the law was as it is now, someone would have to enforce the law. That can only be the Police. Someone would demand they enter and stop the lawbreaking! Someone would demand why the lawbreakers are not arrested if there were resistance ( as there would be)
It would be chaos.
There is all the world a difference between implementing a policy and enforcing the law.!?
That's why I am saying that if you demand the law remains as it is, you have to support and expect its enforcement. And if doing so is impractical and chaotic , and, yes, impossible- how is that good policy?
 
Swinglowandslow said:
For clarity, would those who agree that to not wear a mask in cinemas, theatres and nightclubs should remain unlawful, please say what they would expect to be done to enforce the law in the event of most people in these about to be opened places of entertainment refusing to wear a mask?
What would you expect to see happen?
Theorists need not reply??

I would keep it the law that you should wear masks on public transport.
Click to expand...
In exactly the same way that it's been enforced on public transport for the last 16 months - as in not enforced. Like most of the laws of this country, it would rely on the citizens having respect for the society that they live in, rather than fearing the consequences of law enforcement. Do you abstain from drink driving because you fear the law or because you are socially responsible? I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of drink drivers don't get caught, so you'd probably get away with it.
 
Whilst I'm generally in favour of restrictions being relaxed I'm struggling with the logic.
A month ago there were fewer cases, fewer hospitalizations, fewer deaths..
A month later and all of the above are increasing despite more people having the vaccination...
And we're opening up on Monday.....

What am I missing?
Why is it better to open now rather than a month ago...?
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
My information is that (at least some) venues and nightclubs especially are unlikely to make wearing a mask a condition of entry, because there is too much risk of chaos outside, with some claiming government advise holds precedence over the views of the venue. And trying to maintain a strict mask policy at 11pm at night as lubricated nightclub goers look to enter the club; are not likely to want to wear one and will resist whatever.
Click to expand...

Before the pandemic nightclubs were making these decisions every day of the week. Some won't let you in wearing trainers. Others won't let you in wearing shorts. I don't see why there would be chaos outside. A couple of big signs saying "No mask, no entry" would let everyone know the rules. It's up to the individual establishment to make a decision on what their dress code is and if that includes masks then the public have a simple choice to make, either they abide by it or they go somewhere else. Not that it will affect me, my clubbing days are long gone.
 
Hobbit said:
Do what you believe you should do. Worrying what everyone else will do will achieve nothing apart from pushing your bp up a few notches.

As for what you should do, surely everyone has heard enough guidance by now to know what they should do? You don’t need spoon feeding.
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Chocolate eggs and bottoms come to mind ?
 
Swinglowandslow said:
For clarity, would those who agree that to not wear a mask in cinemas, theatres and nightclubs should remain unlawful, please say what they would expect to be done to enforce the law in the event of most people in these about to be opened places of entertainment refusing to wear a mask?
What would you expect to see happen?
Theorists need not reply??

I would keep it the law that you should wear masks on public transport.
Click to expand...
Very much like drugs. If a venue think someone has illegal drugs they don't let them in, if they sell or use them inside the bouncers throw you out, smoking is also in this class. If the venue arnt acting responsible then they get a fine. That's what happens now.
 
Swinglowandslow said:
I would keep it the law that you should wear masks on public transport.
Click to expand...

I don't get why we didn't as a nation, Scotland once again leading the way on this

Khan has the power to change conditions of carriage for the tube (like bojo did with no drinking on the tube) so masks staying in London

Other mayor's who don't hold the power urging their metros to follow suit

Now I don't get why having to wear a mask on a train would be a bad thing or put you off using it

It won't harm the economy one bit , infact it will boost it as masks bring in tax so people having to buy them ££££

This last year has proved whilst there are some lovely people this country is just full of idiots who think YouTube knows more than experts
 
ColchesterFC said:
Before the pandemic nightclubs were making these decisions every day of the week. Some won't let you in wearing trainers. Others won't let you in wearing shorts. I don't see why there would be chaos outside. A couple of big signs saying "No mask, no entry" would let everyone know the rules. It's up to the individual establishment to make a decision on what their dress code is and if that includes masks then the public have a simple choice to make, either they abide by it or they go somewhere else. Not that it will affect me, my clubbing days are long gone.
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For crying out loud don't start a dress code chat
 
Swinglowandslow said:
For clarity, would those who agree that to not wear a mask in cinemas, theatres and nightclubs should remain unlawful, please say what they would expect to be done to enforce the law in the event of most people in these about to be opened places of entertainment refusing to wear a mask?
What would you expect to see happen?
Theorists need not reply??

I would keep it the law that you should wear masks on public transport.
Click to expand...
I've been to the cinema twice since they reopened, I'm going again tomorrow. Everyone wears their mask until they reach their seat. The moment they sit down the masks come off. They get put on again when people leave. That's happening now, forget post 19th.

The cinema don't attempt to enforce the current rules, not entirely sure how they could if everyone in the cinema ignores them.
 
Imurg said:
Whilst I'm generally in favour of restrictions being relaxed I'm struggling with the logic.
A month ago there were fewer cases, fewer hospitalizations, fewer deaths..
A month later and all of the above are increasing despite more people having the vaccination...
And we're opening up on Monday.....

What am I missing?
Why is it better to open now rather than a month ago...?
Click to expand...
More jabs in arms. Hopefully the numbers, although going up, are less than they would have been had they lifted restrictions completely on the original date
 
Hobbit said:
I wish everyone has had the opportunity. Because we’re below retirement age, 62 & 61, we can’t join the Spanish Healthcare System, relying on private healthcare. But private healthcare companies aren’t allowed to buy the vaccine.

After months of arguing the govt realised they had a large tranche of people that weren’t being vaccinated and offered temporary registration. After 3 months and 5 health centres we’ve finally found a HC that would accept us. That was a month ago. Swapped several emails with the Andalucian Health Board. Response just received… no you can’t be vaccinated.

With France shutting the door to unvaccinated travellers our trip back to the U.K. to see children and g’children is likely to be cancelled. I agree with vaccine passports and restrictions but it’s a bit harsh on those that have been trying, and trying, and trying to get vaccinated but can’t access it.
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Bri. Not doubting what you say - but I've a mate who lives in Valencia - age 59 - who's been double jabbed (And hoping, but totally unsure, that he'll be able to make a trip here for a golfing trip in September).? Any idea how or why he'll have been jabbed? Are the Regions doing things differently to each other? (I feel a message to him coming on ...)
 
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