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Coronavirus - how is it/has it affected you?

London Mayor Khan makes wearing a mask a condition of carriage for TfL. Grant Shapps endorses Khan’s decision. Khan will have to manage enforcement and take the flak from those who point out that the government has not mandated it. But good at least that Khan is being allowed to do this and hopefully most will comply and ‘conflict’ will be minimal.
 
I went on a train last week, asked about masks on platforms as not sure if that was inside or outside. Was told that policy remains that masks should be worn in the station and on the train but staff would not make any approaches nor enforce it and so the final decision was down ot my conscience on the matter. Those going on about transport and the change of rules do not seem to appreciate that with some train companies, the new rules have been the rules all along. Pretty much the same with most shops. They have the signage etc but a mandate to staff not to enforce. For a while now, those who want to wear a mask have done, those who do not have not. The only difference will be those who were ambivilent to mask wearing.
 
larmen said:
It looks like we get a case study on the effect of COVID on a fully vaccinated population

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57830617

Uk aircraft carrier, 3600 people, 100 cases. Granted, 3600 fit and healthy people, I assume.
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Maybe if there is a conflict at sea, they could get close enough to cough on the enemy.
 
Ethan said:
Maybe if there is a conflict at sea, they could get close enough to cough on the enemy.
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I thought more in the line of how many fully vaccinated get infected, have symptoms, get seriously ill, need hospitalisation.
We can compare that to a cruise ship from a year ago, roughly the same number and no vaccine.
 
larmen said:
I thought more in the line of how many fully vaccinated get infected, have symptoms, get seriously ill, need hospitalisation.
We can compare that to a cruise ship from a year ago, roughly the same number and no vaccine.
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We would need to know what vax, and when they got it. No vax provides 100% protection against getting infected, especially in the period immediately after vax. Also, would be interesting to know what type of test. PCR may pick up dead virus incapable of transmission. The ship probably creates more intense transmission conditions than most office blocks or schools, lots of confined spaces with little ventilation, prolonged contact and a high occupancy in shared areas.
 
Ethan said:
In my view, and other views are available, whether you think masks are needed (as I do) or not, leaving that decision to people is crazy. We have sene plenty of picture on the news on the past couple of days that show you can't trust people to make reasonable decisions especially when they affect others.

It is not just a question of personal freedom, there is a question of effects on others. If masks help, they should be mandated. If they do not, there should be no expectation that people will wear them and you shouldn't have the Tube mandating them but overground rail not. We have seen politicians and people here saying they won't wear them unless required, so they clearly plan to exercise no discretion or consider social responsibility.

The halfway house position failed us before, when in the first week of "lockdown", it was based on advice rather than mandate. Didn't work then, won't work now.
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We are on different sides when it comes to the positives of wearing masks however I am in complete agreement with the above. If the science says (however marginal it might be) that wearing masks in busy, enclosed spaces does some good then keep it mandatory for another few months or so but don't leave it up to people where the choice will just create division.
 
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road2ruin said:
We are on different sides when it comes to the positives of wearing masks however I am in complete agreement with the above. If the science says (however marginal it might be) that wearing masks in busy, enclosed spaces then keep it mandatory for another few months or so but don't leave it up to people where the choice will just create division.
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I think we know where the finger of blame is going to be pointed if cases rise too high.
 
Ethan said:
I think we know where the finger of blame is going to be pointed if cases rise too high.
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Young people, old people, unmasked, single vaccinated, not vaccinated, not boostered, immigrants, holidays, clubbers, pub goers, Father Christmas.

You can never be sure depends on the flavour of the month or week on who British people discriminate against
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
All good and reasonable - and it is difficult I get - but I ask again - what is it about the approach the government is defining for the 19th that makes for a cautious approach. Because I don’t know. I can be cautious but that is me and not anything the government is requiring me to do. And if we are not cautious…well whatever next…
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I am not sure what you don’t get. They are removing the laws applicable to mask wearing and social distancing due to the success of the vaccine. It is time for the government to step back from centrally imposed blanket laws and for the individual and individual businesses to police how they operate. They are advising caution and many will follow this advise. Some will maintain requirements on distancing and masks. Others will not. Many people will still keep a distance from others, others will not. Their choice. Will this cause a spike in infections and deaths. No doubt in the short term but hopefully nothing like previous peaks. Normality will also help the livelihoods of many, like your son, and several of my friends who are still not working. We are a Liberal democracy and cannot now justify government-imposed restrictions on our liberty given the success of the vaccine. Anyone, and there will be many, that want to go forward with a cautious attitude to covid are free to do so - as the government are advising. I will keep my mask on me and use it on the tube and potentially other crowded places. And I am allowed to do that, just as others can do as they feel depending on any restrictions that shops, pubs, clubs, churches or transport impose
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
I am asking about the measures I must hold to from the 19th because I don’t know what they are. That is not political it is a socio-economic and behavioural question.
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Do what you believe you should do. Worrying what everyone else will do will achieve nothing apart from pushing your bp up a few notches.

As for what you should do, surely everyone has heard enough guidance by now to know what they should do? You don’t need spoon feeding.
 
PNWokingham said:
I am not sure what you don’t get. They are removing the laws applicable to mask wearing and social distancing due to the success of the vaccine. It is time for the government to step back from centrally imposed blanket laws and for the individual and individual businesses to police how they operate. They are advising caution and many will follow this advise. Some will maintain requirements on distancing and masks. Others will not. Many people will still keep a distance from others, others will not. Their choice. Will this cause a spike in infections and deaths. No doubt in the short term but hopefully nothing like previous peaks. Normality will also help the livelihoods of many, like your son, and several of my friends who are still not working. We are a Liberal democracy and cannot now justify government-imposed restrictions on our liberty given the success of the vaccine. Anyone, and there will be many, that want to go forward with a cautious attitude to covid are free to do so - as the government are advising. I will keep my mask on me and use it on the tube and potentially other crowded places. And I am allowed to do that, just as others can do as they feel depending on any restrictions that shops, pubs, clubs, churches or transport impose
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And remind me what is it about wearing a mask that is a problem - what liberties are lost when wearing a mask may prevent spreading the virus to another. Asking me to be cautious is not the same as the government adopting a cautious approach. The word is the same but the context, implications and likely behaviours are probably going to be quite different.
 
Hobbit said:
Do what you believe you should do. Worrying what everyone else will do will achieve nothing apart from pushing your bp up a few notches.

As for what you should do, surely everyone has heard enough guidance by now to know what they should do? You don’t need spoon feeding.
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If I trusted in the British public and their attitude to being asked to do something rather than being required to do something then I would agree. But I don’t.
 
PNWokingham said:
I am not sure what you don’t get. They are removing the laws applicable to mask wearing and social distancing due to the success of the vaccine. It is time for the government to step back from centrally imposed blanket laws and for the individual and individual businesses to police how they operate. They are advising caution and many will follow this advise. Some will maintain requirements on distancing and masks. Others will not. Many people will still keep a distance from others, others will not. Their choice. Will this cause a spike in infections and deaths. No doubt in the short term but hopefully nothing like previous peaks. Normality will also help the livelihoods of many, like your son, and several of my friends who are still not working. We are a Liberal democracy and cannot now justify government-imposed restrictions on our liberty given the success of the vaccine. Anyone, and there will be many, that want to go forward with a cautious attitude to covid are free to do so - as the government are advising. I will keep my mask on me and use it on the tube and potentially other crowded places. And I am allowed to do that, just as others can do as they feel depending on any restrictions that shops, pubs, clubs, churches or transport impose
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Most of the debate is about masks. I fail to see how the economy cannot open fully and still maintain masks on public transport, shops etc. Can you explain how the masks would keep your friends out of work?

A liberal democracy, as we used to have, does not allow people much scope to choose whether or not they harm others in major public health crises. Nor would it allow people to accept the hospitalisations and death of others just so they didn't feel offended by the requirement to wear a mask. Its very easy to type, 'OK, there'll be deaths, but not that many really and we need to move on'.
 
Jamesbrown said:
Young people, old people, unmasked, single vaccinated, not vaccinated, not boostered, immigrants, holidays, clubbers, pub goers, Father Christmas.

You can never be sure depends on the flavour of the month or week on who British people discriminate against
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And don't forget ..... the EU! They are always fundamentally at fault for bad things.
 
PNWokingham said:
I am not sure what you don’t get. They are removing the laws applicable to mask wearing and social distancing due to the success of the vaccine. It is time for the government to step back from centrally imposed blanket laws and for the individual and individual businesses to police how they operate. They are advising caution and many will follow this advise. Some will maintain requirements on distancing and masks. Others will not. Many people will still keep a distance from others, others will not. Their choice. Will this cause a spike in infections and deaths. No doubt in the short term but hopefully nothing like previous peaks. Normality will also help the livelihoods of many, like your son, and several of my friends who are still not working. We are a Liberal democracy and cannot now justify government-imposed restrictions on our liberty given the success of the vaccine. Anyone, and there will be many, that want to go forward with a cautious attitude to covid are free to do so - as the government are advising. I will keep my mask on me and use it on the tube and potentially other crowded places. And I am allowed to do that, just as others can do as they feel depending on any restrictions that shops, pubs, clubs, churches or transport impose
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And how do the two bits in bold work if one person is wearing a mask and trying to maintain distancing but the second person chooses not to wear a mask or maintain distancing? The person with the cautious attitude is doing their best to keep themselves and others safe but can't do that if others choose not to.
 
ColchesterFC said:
And how do the two bits in bold work if one person is wearing a mask and trying to maintain distancing but the second person chooses not to wear a mask or maintain distancing? The person with the cautious attitude is doing their best to keep themselves and others safe but can't do that if others choose not to.
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That is the thing. Personal responsibility is not nearly enough. Social responsibility is needed, and all of us have seen how lacking that is these days, so needs to be enforced. I would keep masks and do away with self-declared exemptions entirely.
 
ColchesterFC said:
And how do the two bits in bold work if one person is wearing a mask and trying to maintain distancing but the second person chooses not to wear a mask or maintain distancing? The person with the cautious attitude is doing their best to keep themselves and others safe but can't do that if others choose not to.
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I am sure the mask wearer will be very British about it and tut, maybe throw in an eye roll and be passive aggressive about it ?

for what it’s worth, and around here its not a lot, I will continue to wear a mask where I feel it is appropriate eg public transport or busy indoor areas
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
If I trusted in the British public and their attitude to being asked to do something rather than being required to do something then I would agree. But I don’t.
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Soooo, you don’t agree with following the guidance? That’s all you have to do, follow the guidance. What everyone else does is up to them, and you getting your knickers in a twist over what they do will achieve a whole heap of nothing.
 
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