CONGU handicap system - ruinous to Golf

[USER1999]

At my last club, medals were all played in 4s, so you could have a game within the game, and also we played a simultaneous stableford swindle (against the rules playing multiple comps at the same time, but it was fun). We were still round in less than 4 hours. May be because the medal wasn't everything, so if you had a bad hole you could N/R, and still play the match play and stableford.

My current club, medal in 3s, 4 and a quater hours if you are lucky.

I don't like playing medal in 3s, it isn't as much fun.

There should be enough variety in the comps to satisfy those who don't like medal, but medal is still the finest test of golf, and puts different stress on the golfing mind. I like it, but not more than once a month.

 

[GB72]

It is this idea of playing comps as a 3 ball that gets me. At my club most of the comps are just pitch up and play so you can play in your regular group. Problem is that we have a regular 4 ball so either one misses out in comps or we need to find extras. We can get round in a decent time as a 4 ball so cannot see why this has to change for comps.

 

[brendy]

At our club, strokeplay massively outweighs stableford in the main season, winter is different. We play in 4's and last year it took 4.5-5 hours per round, this year its still 4's but rounds never take more than 4 and a quarter hours and having the little matcghes within the 4 ball is good fun and is always a closely run thing.

 

[viscount17]

got to disagree GB, comp matches should never be played by regular groups, they should all be drawn. the only 'seeding' I would allow would be a request for an early or late start.

 

[RGuk]

There should be enough variety in the comps to satisfy those who don't like medal, but medal is still the finest test of golf, and puts different stress on the golfing mind. I like it, but not more than once a month.

Agreed on this. I'd be happy to play medal almost everytime out, but t.b.h. I do like the safety net of stableford.

 

[USER1999]

Our medals are not drawn. I tend to play with the same 2 people, but more often than not at least one of them can't make it and we end up with someone new.

I quite like the idea of drawing it, as there wouldn't be the usual scramble for tee times.

The sheet goes up 2 weeks in advance, at 11.00. This is stupid, as if the comp is going to be on a saturday, all the guys who normally tee off early on a saturday can only get the late times after they come off the course, and vice versa for the sunday comps. There is no logic at all.

 

[viscount17]

suggest it murph,
our list is up normally the same day as, and before, a comp. if there's a cut-off for numbers then the first on the list get in. you can append an E or L and that's it.
early slots at this time of year start at 7.00 am, how late a late start is will depend on how many entered.

 

[Cernunnos]

Stableford is a convinient system when you know the way the points system works for it.

Certainly wouldn't call Stableford fun, just convinient & reletively stress free. It can speed up play, though personnally I much prefer stroke play as I know how I'm actually playing, therefore regardless of the format we're playing I always like to get down a proper score at least for myself.

Stroke play is more challenging & ultimately more rewarding for a sense of personal acchievement.

Having said this knowing how many stableford points I've made in a round gives a sense of accievement too, & if handicap is being taken into accout in a matchplay event, stableford is a fine & fair way of scoring. Though true match play is the purest form of golf. Though again I am loathed to simply pick up, just because I can't win a hole, where is the accievement in that.

 

[balaclava]

Takes these scenario:

Golfer A has been playing with his mates at the local municipal for a couple of years. He has got a decent game together and decides to splash out and join his local club. He puts in his first 3 cards. His scores on those cards are what you might expect from someone who has never played the course before and doesn’t know the greens. After getting to know the course he’s regularly shooting 10 strokes less than the best of his first 3 cards. He plays in all the medal comps he can but working shifts, bad weather and the fact that he’s trying to nurse his game when playing medal means that it’ll take (how many games and how long?) for his handicap to truly reflect his game.

Golfer B comes from a different country (where HC’s are calculated on every 18 hole game played, social or comp). He joins his club in the UK. He puts in his 3 cards with his HC certificate showing he had a HC of 12. His best card is 22 shots over CSS. The HC committee award him a HC of 12 based on his HC certificate. If, his true (UK) HC is 17, he’ll have to play in 50 qualifying games to get there. Working commitments and bad weather means that that might take (how long?) to get there.

But, but, but – you (HC committee people) stutter, there’s rule 19 (or whatever the rule number is). The reason you have a rule 19 is because the system is flawed.

And, you might also add (as has been said to me) we couldn’t possible cope with adjusting HC on every game played. They manage to cope with that in the USA and every other country I’ve played in. They cope because all players are taught to differentiate their own score and enter it into the computer themselves.

A good system is a system that is robust enough to cope with all contingencies and one that produces an accurate result. The CONGU system is not a good system.

 

[balaclava]

I’ve been trying for 2 days now to get into the CONGU website and it seems to be down? I wondered what it said the ‘aims and objectives’ of the CONGU system were?

 

[balaclava]

And, I would ask all you macho, sadistic, masochistic Medal lovers - how many new golfers have given up the game because they couldn’t handle the prospects of another day searching for their lost ball or hacking out of a rain soaked bunker knowing the guys playing with him are rolling their eyes or shaking their heads?

.

 

[USER1999]

But you don't have to medal. Most months there will be a Monthly medal (at the weekend), probably a mid month stableford during the week, a mid week medal, a bogey, all sorts. For those that don't medal, don't enter, just wait for one of the other comps to come round.
I don't think that handicaps would change markedly if all my cards were put in. A representative selection will give the same result. It is like a Mori poll, you only need to ask a certain number of people to draw statistically valid conclusions. As so with h/caps, you only need to look at a number of cards, not all of them.
You are also ignoring the fact that for handicap purposes, even in a medal, stableford scoring can be used to adjust handicaps downwards if a player has a complete disaster on one hole.

 

[viscount17]

and in a medal, stableford scoring can be used to keep a handicap up when you have one or two bad one's amongst the rest.

there may be one problem with your plan murph. At my club you have to play in a certain number of medals to be eligible to enter the other comps.

 

[USER1999]

Ahh, yes, they have you by the b**** on that one. But, hey, you probably only need to suffer three of them.

 

[balaclava]

But you don't have to medal. Most months there will be a Monthly medal (at the weekend), probably a mid month stableford during the week, a mid week medal, a bogey, all sorts. For those that don't medal, don't enter, just wait for one of the other comps to come round.

I have been a member of my club since early spring. So far there has been the following (Club) competition options:
Stabeleford - zero
Matchplay - one
Mixed (medal) - two
Other novelty formats - two
Medal - Thirty six

 

[RGuk]

Stabeleford - zero
Matchplay - one
Mixed (medal) - two
Other novelty formats - two
Medal - Thirty six

Blimey....I see where you are coming from now!!!

Have you joined Medaltown golf club in Medalsville?

Absurd......now I get the drift of the whole thread.....(I'm such a dunce )

No wonder you are having little fun.....BUT I like the sound of novelty formats.....I might ask one of the younger ladies if she fancies some novelty action!!!

 

[The_Squire]

We have a monthly medal and a monthly stableford with the sheets going up on Friday night two weeks before the comp weekend, the only problem I have found with this is you can find that several times are block booked straight away for say 24 people with their names in the same handwriting.

There is also midweek medals and stablefords alternating weekly. I try to play in all I can depending on my shifts.

 

[Marko77]

And, I would ask all you macho, sadistic, masochistic Medal lovers - how many new golfers have given up the game because they couldn’t handle the prospects of another day searching for their lost ball or hacking out of a rain soaked bunker knowing the guys playing with him are rolling their eyes or shaking their heads?

Don't know but they couldn't have been that keen to learn or improve.

strokeplay is golf in it purist form. if your not happy with the number of strokeplay events at your club then maybe you should have done a bit more research before joining instead of whinging about it months down the line.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but surely you know knew what you were signing up to?

to come out and say the CONGU system is ruinous to golf is just rediculous

 

[balaclava]

My frustration, with what to me is a ‘dog’s dinner’ of a system, caused me to write here starting this my first thread to this forum. Before that I had written to CONGU telling them the same thing and go the reply ‘nobody else has complained.’ A year later I am even more convinced that this system is bad and wrong on so many levels and at a loss to understand why it continues. I was told some months back by a member of the handicap committee that over 1/3 of golfers appearing on the handicap list NEVER play in qualifying competition and although, according to the CONGU rules they should be stripped of their handicap they won’t do it. Now I see that CONGU have realised the same thing and are bringing in active and inactive handicaps ( http://www.englishgolfunion.org/showpage.asp?code=0001000200090017 ). I put to it you (and them) that this is an admission on their part that this system isn’t working. If the system was working it wouldn’t need to be shored up with constant tweaks. The answer is, to follow the rest of the world of amateur golf and have handicaps based on every 18 hole game played, social or competition.