club head speed

[Foxholer]

I dont agree they are just factors. I only said it so as not to rock the boat.
I get told off if I disagree with someone who has different ideas from me.

Bob. You are too sensitive!

But they really are 'just' factors!

Consider yourself 'told off'! (boy do we need those smilies back!)

 

[JustOne]

Don't worry Bob, I'm also still learning this stuff:

Laws aren't laws they are factors, factors aren't factors they are ball speeds/club speeds and have no value, pull fade is a preferred stock shot, slower swings mean faster clubheads, and I'm not even going near the roll release!!

Hoping to learn something new tomorrow......!

 

[JustOne]

Bob. You are too sensitive!

But they really are 'just' factors!

I don't get this, I read the link you posted http://home.earthlink.net/~debbievang/id1.html and he says they are Laws.

He even says..

Ball Flight Laws rank as the first priority because they are absolute rather than arbitrary.

....whereby absolute means invariable which is the definition of a LAW (at the top of the page). So I'm confused as to what you're trying to say.

The swing itself has no laws, only principles (or factors if you don't like the word PRINCIPLE). The 5 ball flight laws that Bob posted don't refer to the swing at all only the 'absolute' geometry of the club: angle, path, direction, mass and speed which makes them physical LAWS.....

does it not????

 

[kev_off_the_tee]

My head hurts

 

[SocketRocket]

Don't worry Bob, I'm also still learning this stuff:

Laws aren't laws they are factors, factors aren't factors they are ball speeds/club speeds and have no value, pull fade is a preferred stock shot, slower swings mean faster clubheads, and I'm not even going near the roll release!!

Hoping to learn something new tomorrow......!

So! would you prefer a push fade to a pull fade as a stock shot?

 

[JustOne]

^
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Open a new thread with that title and we can discuss/dispute/argue it LOL

 

[SocketRocket]

^
^
^
Open a new thread with that title and we can discuss/dispute/argue it LOL

Yes or No will do for now.

 

[Foxholer]

Yes or No will do for now.

Doesn't seem to be a popular method of reply!

I prefer a Pull Fade - as it's what I do!

@JO. re the link. That's why I remain unconvinced of her (there were some clues; Deb, LPGA.. and the picture at the bottom) argument, but only used it to assist a 'compromise' of factor vs law. I can be accommodating sometimes - though I'll stiill use 'factor'!

 

[SocketRocket]

Don't worry Bob, I'm also still learning this stuff:

Laws aren't laws they are factors, factors aren't factors they are ball speeds/club speeds and have no value, pull fade is a preferred stock shot, slower swings mean faster clubheads, and I'm not even going near the roll release!!

Hoping to learn something new tomorrow......!

Will swinging the arms fast always create a fast clubhead speed?

 

[Foxholer]

Will swinging the arms fast always create a fast clubhead speed?

Wasn't there a link to a video (quite) a few pages back that showed the different speeds of swings with arms only, arms and hips and arms hips and legs?

Just swinging the arms fast doesn't seem to me the 'best' way of creating high club-head speed. And certainly not high ball-speed, which is my real aim in an 'all-out' swing.

BTW. Aren't you an 'apostle' of golf swing being arms driven rather than body driven? Including the one-piece-takeaway being 'bad'?

 

[SocketRocket]

Wasn't there a link to a video (quite) a few pages back that showed the different speeds of swings with arms only, arms and hips and arms hips and legs?

Just swinging the arms fast doesn't seem to me the 'best' way of creating high club-head speed. And certainly not high ball-speed, which is my real aim in an 'all-out' swing.

BTW. Aren't you an 'apostle' of golf swing being arms driven rather than body driven? Including the one-piece-takeaway being 'bad'?

I was asking those questions to James with a tongue in cheek after his post to Bob.

The video you mention was one I posted, it was Paul Wilson from 'Swing Machine Golf'

I think you are a bit out of touch with the teachings from the NGS. The arms lead swing was in fact what Leslie King suggested way back but things have moved on since then.

Here is one of their videos about clubhead speed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKWtgPypExs&feature=relmfu

 

[JustOne]

Yes or No will do for now.

No. Push-fade is better in my opinion.

 

[SocketRocket]

Really?

 

[Foxholer]

I was asking those questions to James with a tongue in cheek after his post to Bob.

The video you mention was one I posted, it was Paul Wilson from 'Swing Machine Golf'

I think you are a bit out of touch with the teachings from the KSG. The arms lead swing was in fact what Leslie King suggested way back but things have moved on since then.

Here is one of their videos about clubhead speed:

Ah! We need those Smilies back!!!!

Never been 'in-touch' with KSG teaching - though can understand the things moving on bit.

Arms leading the body (rather than the other way around) was fundamental to LK's teaching and 1PT was 'bad' because that;s what it encouraged/meant. Out of interest, have they kept any of it (apart from face being at right angles to swing plane)? Or gone Hogan approach, or mixed/hybrid/their own? I did/do like King's method of not fixing things, but getting it right in the first place - though probably too late for me I'm afraid! That coincides with my 'fix the fundamental cause, not just the symptom' desire.

 

[SocketRocket]

Ah! We need those Smilies back!!!!

Never been 'in-touch' with KSG teaching - though can understand the things moving on bit.

Arms leading the body (rather than the other way around) was fundamental to LK's teaching and 1PT was 'bad' because that;s what it encouraged/meant. Out of interest, have they kept any of it (apart from face being at right angles to swing plane)? Or gone Hogan approach, or mixed/hybrid/their own? I did/do like King's method of not fixing things, but getting it right in the first place - though probably too late for me I'm afraid! That coincides with my 'fix the fundamental cause, not just the symptom' desire.

They have a very good book out at the moment 'Golf's Golden Rule' It focuses on 'the impact zone' and getting the club into the correct positions a few feet before and after impact. It does go into a fair bit more though. Worth a browse if you are in Waterstones. They do have a website on 'Golfs Golden Rule' which has the video I just posted and a number of others on their methods.

 

[stevelev]

That statement might be heading towards a 'Law' (well. not really), but the 5 Factors are not Laws in themselves.

Your post regarding the 5 Factors that contribute to the strike of a golf ball - (only 4 apply directly to 'swing') is fine and could almost be considered to be a (single) Law, but the individual components (factors) are certainly not 'Laws'!

Is 'Mass' a Law? No. Is it a Factor in a Law (F=ma)? Yes!

Who cares to be honest whether they are laws or factors, the terminology is understood by golfer internationally, thatys good enough for everyone else on this forum and worldround, Deal with it.