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What is the recommended swing speed for this clockface method? Is 52mph ok?
'Clock face method' Pitching question
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chrisd
Major Champion
Ten past eleven !
Jimbooo
Challenge Tour Pro
chrisd
Major Champion
I prefer the Phil Mickleson's 'Hinge and Hold method for pitching and chipping. He suggests that if anyone tries to show you the clock method you'd be best to run
The hinge and hold has you taking the club back a shorter distance with an early wrist hinge, then finishing in a high follow through while not letting the club pass your hands. You can use the same method for chipping, pitching and sand shots.
A problem with the clockface method is it can encourage too big a backswing and this can make you decelerate into the ball and duff the shot.
[video=youtube;vZWPee66M1s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZWPee66M1s[/video]
My coach uses 3 positions on the backswing p2 P3 and p4. I believe Phil is wrong in suggesting that any type of " clock " method says that you always swing to the top on the back swing and the same through to the finish, so, in the process, risk decelerating.
My pro certainly advocates the same that Phil does, so, a p2 back swing to a full finish with (say) a 56* when you know exactly how far it goes after testing then, if say it goes 47 yards then you have a yardage for that club with that swing - not everyone is as blessed as Phil with great feel and touch. At no time though does a clock method automatically mean the same length of swing back to through
pokerjoke
Money List Winner
I prefer the Phil Mickleson's 'Hinge and Hold method for pitching and chipping. He suggests that if anyone tries to show you the clock method you'd be best to run
The hinge and hold has you taking the club back a shorter distance with an early wrist hinge, then finishing in a high follow through while not letting the club pass your hands. You can use the same method for chipping, pitching and sand shots.
A problem with the clockface method is it can encourage too big a backswing and this can make you decelerate into the ball and duff the shot.
[video=youtube;vZWPee66M1s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZWPee66M1s[/video]
The thing about this video is hes not really describing the clockface drill with this shot.
No-one needs to take the club back to 9 oclock for a 50 yard shot.
A 50 yard shot for me is 7.30 excelerating into impact to about 3 oclock.
If I played the 50 yard shot back to 9 oclock through to a full finish I would be decelerating into impact.
A 9 oclock through to a full finish is 115 yards with a wedge.
Roops
Head Pro
I used to be all feel for my chipping. After a lesson my pro suggested trying the clock face. I now use both. I asses the shot as a clockface type swing. So it may be a 7 -5 or an 8 - 4 etc, and rehearse the shot this way. Then when I actually swing I just let it happen. I have found this very successful, this last year. Chipped in and chipped close more than ever before.
AMcC
Journeyman Pro
Not sure what you mean with the bit in bold, can you please explain. thanks:cheers:
Roops
Head Pro
Imagine a clock face. The club rests at 6 O'clock behind the ball. The shortest chip will require a back swing to 7 O'clock and a follow through to 5 O'clock. A longer chip will be a back swing to 8 O'clock and a follow through to 4 O'clock. Probably explained poorly, but I hope you get the gist of it.
AMcC
Journeyman Pro
SGC001
Challenge Tour Pro
If you're looking for a method of choosing club for chipping then the rule of 12 is one method of helping to decide club (google it for videos of it).
Basically it's a guide for carry and roll ratios.
In the end they work out like this
1 part carry 1 part roll SW
1 part carry 2 parts roll PW
1 Part carry 3 parts roll 9I
1 part carry 4 parts roll 8I...
then factor in things like speed of greens, grain, firmness, uphill, downhill...
and usually suggest chipping it 3 foot onto the green (first flat part of) (carry part) and select the club where the roll would be appropriate to reach the flag (roll part).
So carry 3 yards, flag 9 yards
Carry 1 part (3), roll 2 parts (6) = Pw
I think the rule of 12 is actually carry/roll subtracted from 12. (12-(6/3)=10)
As the ratios progress up in such a easy manner I tend to just remember them.
Robobum
Money List Winner
SGC001
Challenge Tour Pro
pokerjoke
Money List Winner
Robobum
Money List Winner
I just prefer the Cooper method.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
I have dabbled with the linear method and the clock face method. I feel the Pelz clock face was to regimental for me and I lacked feel. I liked the linear method much more and have some short game lessons booked for the start of the season and hoping we can build on these principles
chrisd
Major Champion
I think that the linear method is a good plan. It's starting well for me and certainly got me two birdies yesterday with a 100 and an 80 yard pitch on consecutive holes, both to about 2 foot. I think that you can embrace the principles of it and tweak it to suit to some degree. My pro encourages a wrist break early on and I spoke to Andrew Jones one of GM's Top 25 coaches yesterday and he likes no wrist break, so, embrace the overall plan in your own style is my view.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
Depends what loft you are using. He is using 60 Deg there for the 50 Yard shot.
pokerjoke
Money List Winner
Come on mate cant you see he takes it back to 8 o clock to a full finish.
If he took it back to the 9 o clock position he was showing first,of course it would
go further than 50 yards.
However that's very easy to control as well.
Im all for the players that use feel,too.
All hes really saying is make sure you excelerate into impact,however far you take a club
back.
Foxholer
Blackballed
Q for those who use this method - How do you know that you are swinging to 9 o'clock? (for example)
On three balls all landing in same pitchmark - do you know that you haven't hit one at 8 o'clock with a little extra "hit", one at 9 o'clock (perfect) and one at 10 o'clock with a little decell?
Video?
Has to be by feel for me, I'd be tied in knots with clock thoughts
9 O'Clock is easy - arms are horizontal. P3 for the backswing analysts!
10:30 (or 3/4 or whatever) is relatively easy too. For me it's the point at which I'd let my wrists cock fully for a 'full' swing.
I never really got on with the 7:30, so don't use the 'finesse' swing for that.
It's not particularly significant where a particular swing gets to for the Pelz finesse style to be effective. The key aspects are to get it consistent (why I dropped the 7:30) and for the follow through to get to the same place on all swings. It just means that someone's 'natural' long (my term) swing is 11:00 or 10:00 rather than 10:30 - with appropriate distance distances. Of course, the Pros, with all the practice they do!, can alter these by 'minutes' for the particular distances they want to fly the ball - which is how Pelz's 'discovery' came about! And just because it's a 'disciplined/rigorous/' approach doesn't mean there's no 'feel' involved.
The key part of the system is the confidence of knowing whether it's a 'normal' swing or whether some extra zip, or other adjustment, is required. That simply takes one variable (and a major one at that) out of consideration. For me, it's as important as (probably exactly the same as) the benefit knowing the distance to where I want to hit in the first place! The shot still has to be struck properly, with a 'good' swing, to be effective though.
Pelz 10:30 swing is pretty reliable for me on clubs up to 7-iron and I have used it effectively with 6 or 5 iron on occasions.
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