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christmas is nearly hear when did it lose its meaning

bluewolf said:
Right, that's it. I've been perfectly willing to ignore this rather pathetic "discussion" up to now based on the fact that Socket has appeared to be arguing with the person, not the theology. He has spun some personal comments into a reason to dismiss a posters beliefs (without once detailing his own beliefs I might add!!!), but the above is a crock of sh"t. You might dismiss the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus, but my children believe in them whole heartedly. Is their belief somehow less important than yours? Or are you another God Botherer who thinks that only you have access to the correct information? Just exactly how high is that horse of yours?

To my knowledge, the whole concept of God is unprovable. Just as the concept of Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy is unprovable. To dismiss any belief is a paradox that in turn renders your own belief unimportant. I respect your belief, just as I respect any faithfully held belief. I respect your right to hold it, just as I expect you to respect my right to think that your beliefs are wrong.

Oh, and I should point out, that right at this moment, there are probably more believers in Santa Claus, than in your Christian God. Take from that what you will.
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Pretty well sums it up for me!

If anyone believes in God just some simple questions:

If he made the world, where does the Big Bang theory come in and evolution start?

If he exists, is he the same higher power as other religious deities or is every deity real and exists? What is the Christian God more likely to be the genuine one rather than, say, Mohammad?

Why does God not do more to stop wars and suffering?

Why does someone who repents his sins still go to heaven no matter what wrongs he's done, but I, who've done very little wrong not get to go just because I mistakenly didn't worship him - is he that unforgiving?

I know there's no proof he exists, but what can anyone show that even indicates the real possibility that he (it) does?
 
SocketRocket said:
Another argument based on blind prejudice. I would suggest you prefer personal attacks than debate of the subject matter. If you bothered to read the thread without a blinkered view you may see that I have put forward considered rationale for my viewpoint.

Please feel free to discuss any of them in detail if you wish but if its more of the previous then probably best not to.
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If you find blue's post to be based on blind prejudice, I suggest you steer well clear of any Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens debates on youtube. They won't be your cup of tea at all.
 
chrisd said:
Pretty well sums it up for me!

If anyone believes in God just some simple questions:

If he made the world, where does the Big Bang theory come in and evolution start?

If he exists, is he the same higher power as other religious deities or is every deity real and exists? What is the Christian God more likely to be the genuine one rather than, say, Mohammad?

Why does God not do more to stop wars and suffering?

Why does someone who repents his sins still go to heaven no matter what wrongs he's done, but I, who've done very little wrong not get to go just because I mistakenly didn't worship him - is he that unforgiving?

I know there's no proof he exists, but what can anyone show that even indicates the real possibility that he (it) does?
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Also, in attempt to add to the "debate"...

If God exists... why do you think he wants to be worshipped?

Why would he care what we do?

Do you have to believe in all of a religion's doctrines, or just the parts you want to?

How much is the Vatican worth (financially)? Isn't that against the spirit of Jesus?

Why do women get the raw deal in most religions?

I could go on, but I think that should spark a decent debate!
 
chrisd said:
Pretty well sums it up for me!

If anyone believes in God just some simple questions:

If he made the world, where does the Big Bang theory come in and evolution start?

If he exists, is he the same higher power as other religious deities or is every deity real and exists? What is the Christian God more likely to be the genuine one rather than, say, Mohammad?

Why does God not do more to stop wars and suffering?

Why does someone who repents his sins still go to heaven no matter what wrongs he's done, but I, who've done very little wrong not get to go just because I mistakenly didn't worship him - is he that unforgiving?

I know there's no proof he exists, but what can anyone show that even indicates the real possibility that he (it) does?
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Chris,

My debate was not about the points you raise and I do not really want to make a case for them. I have not been suggesting that God exists or if he does why he may decide to allow mankind to live in a particular way or his relationship with the creation of the universe. My main argument has been against some of the suggestions that people with a religious faith are somehow deluded and naive and their beliefs are parallel to fairy tales. It's fine for me if anyone is an atheist but there is a grown up way of disagreeing with peoples faith.
 
bluewolf said:
blind prejudice of what exactly? Strangely enough, I always considered you as an intelligent person. I don't agree with your personal viewpoint, but I respected your position. This thread appears to suggest that I was wrong. It may take me a while to get use to the feeling. You can see that I'm not used to it.
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You know what! That sums up exactly my view of you, you just don't appear capable to differentiate between debating subject matter and personal affronts. I don't find your attempts at sarcasm very worthy of you either.

I will now leave the debate as it's running around in circles and just become a farce. I would suggest a Mod should close it before it gets really out of hand.
 
SocketRocket said:
You know what! That sums up exactly my view of you, you just don't appear capable to differentiate between debating subject matter and personal affronts. I don't find your attempts at sarcasm very worthy of you either.

I will now leave the debate as it's running around in circles and just become a farce. I would suggest a Mod should close it before it gets really out of hand.
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So your bored of the thread so now it should be closed :confused:
 
SocketRocket said:
You know what! That sums up exactly my view of you, you just don't appear capable to differentiate between debating subject matter and personal affronts. I don't find your attempts at sarcasm very worthy of you either.

I will now leave the debate as it's running around in circles and just become a farce. I would suggest a Mod should close it before it gets really out of hand.
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Socket - before you go.... My mum believes in God (Christian)... but I think it's a load of twaddle/baloney/magical/crazyness, and she knows I think that as I've told her. I've also told her I totally respect her belief even if it's not for me.

Does that mean I've suggested she's an idiot?
 
SocketRocket said:
Chris,

My debate was not about the points you raise and I do not really want to make a case for them. I have not been suggesting that God exists or if he does why he may decide to allow mankind to live in a particular way or his relationship with the creation of the universe. My main argument has been against some of the suggestions that people with a religious faith are somehow deluded and naive and their beliefs are parallel to fairy tales. It's fine for me if anyone is an atheist but there is a grown up way of disagreeing with peoples faith.
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:clap:
 
SocketRocket said:
Chris,

My debate was not about the points you raise and I do not really want to make a case for them. I have not been suggesting that God exists or if he does why he may decide to allow mankind to live in a particular way or his relationship with the creation of the universe. My main argument has been against some of the suggestions that people with a religious faith are somehow deluded and naive and their beliefs are parallel to fairy tales. It's fine for me if anyone is an atheist but there is a grown up way of disagreeing with peoples faith.
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So your argument wasn't about our denial of Gods existence but how it was argued?

The trouble is that we are in a state where political correctness is the main priority! You can't say what you mean anymore without "offending" someone. Even if a point is not offensive someone will assume someone else will be offended and stand up for their "right" not to be offended (even if they wern't).

What's wrong in just being able to state a position without the PC brigade jumping up and down?
 
SocketRocket said:
You know what! That sums up exactly my view of you, you just don't appear capable to differentiate between debating subject matter and personal affronts. I don't find your attempts at sarcasm very worthy of you either.

I will now leave the debate as it's running around in circles and just become a farce. I would suggest a Mod should close it before it gets really out of hand.
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I find your view of me entirely irelelevant to be honest. Oh, and you weren't having a debate, you were (quite wrongly) attacking someone's comments for no good reason other than to attempt to make yourself appear smart and superior. You failed.

Oh, and please feel free to detail your own strongly held beliefs, or are they not pertinent to the discussion?
 
Just had some one knocking at my door trying to give me leaflets on religion. Now I don't have a problem with anyone having their beliefs but why do they feel the need to brainwash others?
 
5 loaves and two fish to feed 5000?

Either it was a set of bloody big loaves and fish or it's a fairy tale but as the story goes Jesus managed to multiply them and everyone got a good feed.

I know what I believe and it aint the latter but each to their own.Folk believe and I respect that,my parents hardly miss a Sunday and the old man is a church elder but it's all utter pish as far as I am concerned and my parents respect that as I do their choice to believe.
 
Pin-seeker said:
Just had some one knocking at my door trying to give me leaflets on religion. Now I don't have a problem with anyone having their beliefs but why do they feel the need to brainwash others?
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Holy crap what type of guys call at your house. Usually they call to mine asking if I'd like to no more about Jesus. When I reply no they go away. Never had any attempt to brain wash me. Inform me about their beliefs in the hope that I may be interested in the same, yes, but brainwash?
 
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Pin-seeker said:
Just had some one knocking at my door trying to give me leaflets on religion. Now I don't have a problem with anyone having their beliefs but why do they feel the need to brainwash others?
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oh dear - just in what way were they trying to 'brainwash' you? Little bit of hyperbole from you there methinks. If they were Jehovah's Witnesses then it is part of their evangelic doctrine that they should try and spread the word. Nothing wrong with accepting a copy of Watch Tower and having a read - or just say no thankyou. I tend to add that I have my own beliefs that I am completely happy and comfortable with. Don't be frightened of them - they are only being nice (trying to save you)
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
oh dear - just in what way were they trying to 'brainwash' you? Little bit of hyperbole from you there methinks. If they were Jehovah's Witnesses then it is part of their evangelic doctrine that they should try and spread the word. Nothing wrong with accepting a copy of Watch Tower and having a read - or just say no thankyou. I tend to add that I have my own beliefs that I am completely happy and comfortable with. Don't be frightened of them - they are only being nice (trying to save you)
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Shame they can't see that people are trying to been nice (trying to save them) when they need a blood transfusion.
& for the record I was polite & said thanks but no thanks.
 
Dodger said:
5 loaves and two fish to feed 5000?

Either it was a set of bloody big loaves and fish or it's a fairy tale but as the story goes Jesus managed to multiply them and everyone got a good feed.

I know what I believe and it aint the latter but each to their own.Folk believe and I respect that,my parents hardly miss a Sunday and the old man is a church elder but it's all utter pish as far as I am concerned and my parents respect that as I do their choice to believe.
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...and what do you really think of those who believe in your 'utter pish' and use it to guide their actions? They must at least be a bit daft, mad or deluded don't you think? Maybe even dangerous.
 
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