Choose Your Tee Markers?

[Slab]

Just read through the GM article https://www.golfmonthly.com/feature...r-example-of-golf-shooting-itself-in-the-foot

Does he have any (valid) points?
(i think he was a visitor at this course)

Is being "long enough" in and of itself, sufficient reason to play the tips?
Does the 'extra strokes' he's seeking from the tips make it worthwhile? (particularly when he isn't actually playing in a comp & just submitting a GP card)
Can wear & tear (ahead of a comp the following day) be so readily dismissed?



And as a p.s: if you're reading this Nick, after switching to the 'correct' tees, did you give yourself a mulligan or count your 1st ball too?

 

[Backache]

Where there is a significant difference in length golf can take a lot longer of the back tees.

This chap seems to think a green fees should allow him to hack up a medal tee whilst holding up play

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Where there is a significant difference in length golf can take a lot longer of the back tees.

This chap seems to think a green fees should allow him to hack up a medal tee whilst holding up play

Bit unfair to say he'd hack a medal tee up. It is a question I'll sometimes ask if I am going to visit another club if it isn't clear on the website. Some allow you to play from different tees based on your handicap although in some cases this can be a guide and not compulsory. My club and others treat green fees as members for the day and so are happy for visitors to play off the whites if desired

 

[MACM85]

At my home club I will play whites as that is the set up for all comps and knockout matches, If I visit an away club then I will ask what the tee of the day is and ask if there is any issues to play further back if I choose to. Generally will look at the card and work out the yardage of the course of X tee and see if I will find it enjoyable.

 

[CountLippe]

Back in the day, our course only brought the white blocks out on a friday, taken in again on the monday. Member pressure means they're out all the time now. The white tees do suffer excessive wear and tear because of it. Wear and tear is a valid reason for restricting visitors to alternate tees.

If wear an tear is not an issue, then there is round time. Visitors by and large take longer to play a course than members, if the course suffers from long round times then restricting visitors to forward tees is also valid.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Where there is a significant difference in length golf can take a lot longer of the back tees.

This chap seems to think a green fees should allow him to hack up a medal tee whilst holding up play

Why would a green fee paying golfer “hack up” the medal fee and hold up play anymore than a member would

Think if you are paying a green fee then you should be afforded the same rights as tbe members

If they can play off the whites then so should a green fee

 

[Orikoru]

Most courses are longer than mine so I'm happy to play yellows anyway. You should probably be able to play whichever tees you like - but then some people need saving from themselves. As soon as you allow people to play any tees, you'll have all sorts of high-handicappers and short-hitters playing the back tees and hampering themselves for no good reason. So it's catch 22 I guess - you can't get it right for everybody all of the time.

I never play the yellows at my home course because I only get 12 shots instead of 14 so it feels impossible to play to my handicap from that position. And as mentioned, my course is short so white tees are absolutely fine on all holes.

 

[Wabinez]

Jeez this guy sounds like he has a stick up his bottom.

If a club dictates that visitors play off the yellows, then abide by the rules

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Most courses are longer than mine so I'm happy to play yellows anyway. You should probably be able to play whichever tees you like - but then some people need saving from themselves. As soon as you allow people to play any tees, you'll have all sorts of high-handicappers and short-hitters playing the back tees and hampering themselves for no good reason. So it's catch 22 I guess - you can't get it right for everybody all of the time.

I never play the yellows at my home course because I only get 12 shots instead of 14 so it feels impossible to play to my handicap from that position. And as mentioned, my course is short so white tees are absolutely fine on all holes.

I'm off 10 off our yellows and like you lose 2 shots compared to the whites which is part of the reason I prefer going off the back. In winter the club puts whatever comps are on (usually monthly stableford and a Christmas one) off the yellows so the whites tend to get more rested anyway. We swap our weekend roll ups to the yellows to make it fairer to the higher handicaps in the wetter conditions. I would always want to play off a tee marker that tests me. Place like The Caversham and Tylney Park would be way too long off their tips (not sure the members use them too often) but their whites are long but playable. However if a club says tee of the day then thats what you do

 

[wjemather]

Just read through the GM article https://www.golfmonthly.com/feature...r-example-of-golf-shooting-itself-in-the-foot

Does he have any (valid) points?
(i think he was a visitor at this course)

Is being "long enough" in and of itself, sufficient reason to play the tips?
Does the 'extra strokes' he's seeking from the tips make it worthwhile? (particularly when he isn't actually playing in a comp & just submitting a GP card)
Can wear & tear (ahead of a comp the following day) be so readily dismissed?



And as a p.s: if you're reading this Nick, after switching to the 'correct' tees, did you give yourself a mulligan or count your 1st ball too?

In short, no.

Unless otherwise advised, you don't just head to the back tees without asking the pro or starter - either as a member or visitor.

His thinking about "extra strokes" is all wrong.

Some courses have very small tee boxes for the longest tees, so wear has to be carefully managed.

 

[Slab]

While not ideal I think handicap range is maybe the best guide clubs have to refer to & then recommend a tee box to players, be they visitors or members (non comp) It can be an big impact to pace and enjoyment if players take on too much, especially on an unfamiliar layout. I like @Orikoru description of ‘saving players from themselves’

But if the club have the markers out then those tees should be ‘open’ for use. If club wants a prepared teeing area protected, don’t put the markers on it. It’s not rocket surgery & I don’t see the need to chase down and make a player feel bad/embarrassed by using tees clearly in play

If there’s a comp the following day I’d expect the markers to be moved a yard or two first thing in the morning anyway, so there should be minimal impact if players are using them the day before.
You can easily imagine par 3 tees getting chewed up, so daily moving of these markers is likely a must anyway and unless the weather is very wet then most par 4’s/5’s are driver so its just foot traffic which is a negligible impact to the prepared area

 

[Slab]

Most courses are longer than mine so I'm happy to play yellows anyway. You should probably be able to play whichever tees you like - but then some people need saving from themselves. As soon as you allow people to play any tees, you'll have all sorts of high-handicappers and short-hitters playing the back tees and hampering themselves for no good reason. So it's catch 22 I guess - you can't get it right for everybody all of the time.

I never play the yellows at my home course because I only get 12 shots instead of 14 so it feels impossible to play to my handicap from that position. And as mentioned, my course is short so white tees are absolutely fine on all holes.

I'm off 10 off our yellows and like you lose 2 shots compared to the whites which is part of the reason I prefer going off the back. In winter the club puts whatever comps are on (usually monthly stableford and a Christmas one) off the yellows so the whites tend to get more rested anyway. We swap our weekend roll ups to the yellows to make it fairer to the higher handicaps in the wetter conditions. I would always want to play off a tee marker that tests me. Place like The Caversham and Tylney Park would be way too long off their tips (not sure the members use them too often) but their whites are long but playable. However if a club says tee of the day then thats what you do

Interesting how it differs player to player. I lose 3 shots, from 14 down to 11 strokes going forward and its a trade off I'm delighted to make. I can way more easily play to 11 than I can play to 14 from our comp tees.
What is the overall length difference between the two sets for you guys? (mines about 450yards)

 

[nickjdavis]

Having read the article, "having a competition the following day" is not a valid excuse to prevent someone playing off a particular set of tees. Equally, "my game is long enough", "my friends prefer to" or "i want the extra shots" are not valid reasons for wanting to play off the whites.

The only valid reason for playing of the whites is a "desire to play the course at its toughest challenge". But if the course has a policy that says no green fees/visitors off the back tees in general play, then you abide by it. I don't think it is correct by the way, I agree that if you have paid your green fee then you should get the same "rights" as a member...however if members aren't allowed to play general play off the white tees, then there isn't much of an argument to be made.

Personally when visiting a course I always enquire if it is acceptable to play off the back tees before doing so.

My own course, up until three or four years ago, used to restrict the white tees to competition play only irrespective of whether you were a visitor or a member. Many of our back tees are quite small and restricted in area, thus concentrating the wear. However, in recent years general play has been allowed off the white tees for all. All I will say is that our tees take a hammering and are not the best in the area. Wear and tear IS, I'm afraid, a valid reason for restricting play at some courses.

 

[Orikoru]

Interesting how it differs player to player. I lose 3 shots, from 14 down to 11 strokes going forward and its a trade off I'm delighted to make. I can way more easily play to 11 than I can play to 14 from our comp tees.
What is the overall length difference between the two sets for you guys? (mines about 450yards)

I don't think there's a vast difference in playability, which is why I don't rate my chances of playing 2 shots lowers. There's one par 3 that becomes easier because it ceases to be a blind shot, but the green is still a 3-putt magnet so I'm not sure it translates as a whole shot easier. The three or four par 4s/5s that have the bigger difference in tees are all short-ish holes so you'd expect to reach the green in regulation either way. So again, not making a huge amount of difference.

Maybe I'm wrong, but we're only 5550 off the whites anyway, and 5280 off yellows so that makes it extremely short overall - without necessarily having a big impact on your score.

 

[wjemather]

While not ideal I think handicap range is maybe the best guide clubs have to refer to & then recommend a tee box to players, be they visitors or members (non comp) It can be an big impact to pace and enjoyment if players take on too much, especially on an unfamiliar layout. I like @Orikoru description of ‘saving players from themselves’

But if the club have the markers out then those tees should be ‘open’ for use. If club wants a prepared teeing area protected, don’t put the markers on it. It’s not rocket surgery & I don’t see the need to chase down and make a player feel bad/embarrassed by using tees clearly in play

If there’s a comp the following day I’d expect the markers to be moved a yard or two first thing in the morning anyway, so there should be minimal impact if players are using them the day before.
You can easily imagine par 3 tees getting chewed up, so daily moving of these markers is likely a must anyway and unless the weather is very wet then most par 4’s/5’s are driver so its just foot traffic which is a negligible impact to the prepared area

Our back tees are almost always out so that they are available for use in any knockout matches. It doesn't make them available for general play. All non-competition/match play is from the tees of the day unless granted permission to do otherwise.

 

[Backache]

Why would a green fee paying golfer “hack up” the medal fee and hold up play anymore than a member would

Think if you are paying a green fee then you should be afforded the same rights as tbe members

If they can play off the whites then so should a green fee

Firstly the article referred to white tees being out of play and part of the complaint was that it may be for members as well.

If there is more room on the forward tees it is reasonable that at times play is restricted to these to prevent undue wear.

Play is also likely to be slower off the back tees another reason to restrict play from them at busy times to allow a smoother flow.

Visitors from personal observation are slower than members, it is certainly the case on our course.
I think I am slower on courses that I am not familiar with as the optimal line of play is less certain and I am less familiar with places a ball is likely to be found off the fairway.
I further strongly suspect though I may be wrong that visitors are more often occasional golfers whose arc depth control is less good and are more likely to damage tees.

 

[nickjdavis]

Interesting how it differs player to player. I lose 3 shots, from 14 down to 11 strokes going forward and its a trade off I'm delighted to make. I can way more easily play to 11 than I can play to 14 from our comp tees.
What is the overall length difference between the two sets for you guys? (mines about 450yards)

Off our whites (5844yds) I get 9 and off our yellows (5560) I get 8, off our red tees I get 4. (index 9.6)

I'd have a much lower index if I played all my golf of the yellow tees. 3 of the 5 par threes have a difference in yardage that makes it a lot easier off the yellows, and there is one par 4 where the relative length takes a lot of trouble away. mostly though it is pressure and visuals where the difference comes in....on at least five of the par 4's the view that is presented from the yellow tee appears a lot more "forgiving" than moving even only 20 or 30 yards back. Certainly the overall effect for me is greater than the one single shot difference than I get.

I've not played the red tees yet (only rated a couple of months ago).

 

[Slab]

I don't think there's a vast difference in playability, which is why I don't rate my chances of playing 2 shots lowers. There's one par 3 that becomes easier because it ceases to be a blind shot, but the green is still a 3-putt magnet so I'm not sure it translates as a whole shot easier. The three or four par 4s/5s that have the bigger difference in tees are all short-ish holes so you'd expect to reach the green in regulation either way. So again, not making a huge amount of difference.

Maybe I'm wrong, but we're only 5550 off the whites anyway, and 5280 off yellows so that makes it extremely short overall - without necessarily having a big impact on your score.

Ah, I’ve just mentally gone round home course and there’s 6 maybe 7 holes that are a chunk more playable off our ‘yellows’ (not counting par 3’s) So for me it’s a no brainer to drop 3 strokes for a chance to score better on 6 holes

If I’m playing decent then may the odds forever be in my favour
If I’m playing mince it doesn’t matter what tee box I use

 

[Slab]

Our back tees are almost always out so that they are available for use in any knockout matches. It doesn't make them available for general play. All non-competition/match play is from the tees of the day unless granted permission to do otherwise.

I forgot about matchplay. So I guess at clubs where space is restricted for prepared areas there's a semi-permanent sign at 1st tee for 'Tee of the Day" to let match use the tips
I also guess that didn't apply at the course the fella that wrote the article was playing




Thinking on another aspect, where its too small a prepared area, is this the way some courses were built and its never been improved/corrected, or is it courses lengthening to squeeze in extra yardage to the property footprint

 

[jim8flog]

Where I play there was a time when playing off the whites in friendly games was restricted to Cat1 golfers.
I often complained about this at it gave them an unfair advantage when playing in comps when others in the same division could not do so (I was 6 hcp at the time).

Now we are free to play off any tee we choose. Sadly though the whites have not been rated for ladies, we have a few very low handicap ones who would appreciate this.