"Cheating"; "Cheater"

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rulie

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It certainly appears that any mention of "cheating" or "cheater" causes posters great consternation, as it should - it's emotional and it puts others in a position where they feel compelled to defend themselves, also emotionally.
Imo, these words are accusatory and shouldn't be used in a Rules forum where we discuss facts, how those facts relate to written Rules and whether there may have been breaches of those Rules, with potential consequences.
Just my two pence worth, and it's worth what you paid for it!
 

IanM

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(light hearted response as intonation in text not possible!)

just a wee observation, since Rules Folk are such sticklers.......................this is not a Rules Forum.. It's the forum of a golf magazine, and this is the folder for any chat about "rules related stuff!" (or I have got that wrong?)

.....lighten up, I think we know the differences between wilful cheating and an absence of understanding of a rule. In fact it often comes out in the narrative...
 
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rulie

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(light hearted response as intonation in text not possible!)

just a wee observation, since Rules Folk are such sticklers.......................this is not a Rules Forum.. It's the forum of a golf magazine, and this is the folder for any chat about "rules related stuff!" (or I have got that wrong?)

.....lighten up, I think we know the differences between wilful cheating and an absence of understanding of a rule. In fact it often comes out in the narrative...
Thanks for the clarification of forums and folders. 🤓
It's still more about facts and information, less about accusations and emotion. Facts and data are used to end emotional arguments.
 

bobmac

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It certainly appears that any mention of "cheating" or "cheater" causes posters great consternation, as it should - it's emotional and it puts others in a position where they feel compelled to defend themselves, also emotionally.
Imo, these words are accusatory and shouldn't be used in a Rules forum where we discuss facts, how those facts relate to written Rules and whether there may have been breaches of those Rules, with potential consequences.
Just my two pence worth, and it's worth what you paid for it!
I'm not fussed what you call it where you are but if someone knowingly breaks the rules, they are cheats and should be called for it.
 
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rulie

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I'm not fussed what you call it where you are but if someone knowingly breaks the rules, they are cheats and should be called for it.
Do you consider that your personal responsibility or is it up to the Committee? Is someone taking a gimme of four inches in casual stroke play to be "called out"?
 
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I'm with Rulie on this. The rules folder is, or should be, about the technicality of the rules. What is the rule for X. How should Y be addressed. Am I allowed to Z.

The matter of whether someone adheres to the rules, or deliberately flouts them, is better discussed in the Lounge, or in the 19th at the club.
 

Tashyboy

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I would hazard a guess ( note the guess bit) that 99.9 % of golfers do not know 99.9% of the rules. In essence it is a game for gentlemen and ladies, where integrity is a fundamental part of the game. If you as a player are not sure of a ruling or situation that may arise. You can find out. The problem arises when some players use said fore mentioned integrity as a weakness and knowingly cheat. At that point, a cheat is a cheat.
That said 99.9% of golfers play with the integrity this great game deserves.
 

chrisd

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Sorry Tashy but that just us not so. I play loads of golf including with many forum members and I'd say MOST golfers know MOST of the rules that they encounter on the normal competition rounds they play. Most dont know the obscure ones and often how to proceed when a breach of rule has happened
 

drdel

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I would hazard a guess ( note the guess bit) that 99.9 % of golfers do not know 99.9% of the rules. In essence it is a game for gentlemen and ladies, where integrity is a fundamental part of the game. If you as a player are not sure of a ruling or situation that may arise. You can find out. The problem arises when some players use said fore mentioned integrity as a weakness and knowingly cheat. At that point, a cheat is a cheat.
That said 99.9% of golfers play with the integrity this great game deserves.
and....

Most of us play for fun most of the time - its a game not a war! The occasional transgression will occur through ignorance and rarely because of a desperate need to win and, lets face it, the actual advantage gained by the transgressor will usually amount to the sum total of beggar all.

I cant see that on a public forum we need to get uptight by the phrases and flowery language employed by each other.
 

User20204

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Sorry Tashy but that just us not so. I play loads of golf including with many forum members and I'd say MOST golfers know MOST of the rules that they encounter on the normal competition rounds they play. Most dont know the obscure ones and often how to proceed when a breach of rule has happened
On YT there is a ten question rules quiz, I asked my PP's the ten questions, the highest score was 3 out of 10, the other two scored 2, possibly golfers aren't as knowledgeable as you may think.
 

User20204

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The occasional transgression will occur through ignorance and rarely because of a desperate need to win and, lets face it, the actual advantage gained by the transgressor will usually amount to the sum total of beggar all.

.

I "cheated" twice yesterday. Out with my mates playing a £2 a head stableford my ball moved when I was removing a pine cone and then a few holes later I moved my ball off a route, no one cared, had it been a competition, I wouldn't have moved the cone and wouldn't have moved my ball away from the route, horses for courses.
 

IanM

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And therein lies the point.

Sometimes we go out to play for fun. Might not even bother keeping score.

Other times, you have a card and pencil.

Some understand the difference. Some don't. My Referee Buddy would try to apply a penalty to the guy next to him on the driving range! :ROFLMAO:

And, if you don't want cheater references on this folder, dont post them. It's that easy.
 
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And therein lies the point.

Sometimes we go out to play for fun. Might not even bother keeping score.

Other times, you have a card and pencil.

Someone understand the difference. Some don't. My Referee Buddy would try to apply a penalty to the guy next to him on the driving range! :ROFLMAO:

And, if you don't want cheater references on this folder, dont post them. It's that easy.
tbf there has been a clear distinction made between casual golf and what's expected in a comp round.
That said it's only things like gimmes and hitting more than one ball that are different for me in casual rounds.
 

Tashyboy

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Sorry Tashy but that just us not so. I play loads of golf including with many forum members and I'd say MOST golfers know MOST of the rules that they encounter on the normal competition rounds they play. Most dont know the obscure ones and often how to proceed when a breach of rule has happened
I couldn't agree more. ( note the guess bit) But most of the rules we know through common sense. Cannot pick your ball up until On green, dont ground clubs in bunker etc etc. We all do that in auto pilot. Its the obscure rules that some people are Not aware of. That i get. That i have asked on here and at the course. But theres a massive difference in knowing rules, not knowing the rules and banditary, lifting a ball to a better lie, putting a 4 down instead of a 5 and cheating.
 
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