Cavity wall insulation

[CrapHacker]

Mods. I don't know if this is totally out of order, or if it's acceptable. Any problems, please feel free to delete immediately.

I wouldn't normally post this sort of thing this early into my membership here, I'd wait 'till you all get to know me better.

But there is due to be a price increase at the end of the month, so if anyone is interested, I will be able to save you a few bob, if you want to act over the next week or two.

This will only be only be remotely interesting to home owners out there, so some of you might want to stop reading now

Basically the government are committed to reducing carbon emmissions throughout the country. To help them achieve this they have arranged, via the Energy Savings Trust, for the power companies ( EG British Gas, Eon, EDF, etc etc ) to put grants in place to help people maximise the insulation they have in their homes ( cavity walls and lofts ). Everyone is elligable for a grant of approximately 70% of the total cost, and some people mainly the over 70s ( and some people on certain benefits )can get a total grant of 100% of the costs.

I work for a company called the MARK GROUP, as a surveyor. We actually ( alongside other companies such as Miller Pattison ) do all the actual installations for BG, Eon, EDF etc as mentioned above. All the work is done to standards set out by a govt agency, The Cavity Insulation Guarantee Agency, who give a 25 year guarantee against all work carried out under the scheme ( IE the scheme, and the guarantee is independant of the individual companies ).

Right. That's the boring bit out of the way.

Now the bit that might be more interesting to some. The people who get 100% grants will obviously be unaffected, but there is due to be a small increase in cost to the people who get the 70% grant ( most of you out there )

At the moment the schemes set up by the power companies generally subsidise the cost to the extent that the individual pays approximately £199 - £299 for the work. Then we come along to make sure the work is viable and withing the scheme's meterage allowance etc. Because of the grants that means we get up to £700 - £800 for work costing you only £200.

However, coming to us directly means you can save a couple of quid for exactly the same job.

Until the end of the month cavity wall insulation can be arranged for

£149 for properties up to semi detached homes
£169 for detached properties

IE not a lot in comparison with the value of your home.

These grants are ongoing, and can be arranged in many ways ( via councils, via your gas supplier etc ), but because of the imminent price increase I thought some people might like to be made aware of it now.

Personally I cover the south from Arundel up to Woking and across to Margate, Dover etc.

Obviously all surveys are non obligatory, and free of charge ( we are offering a service here - we're not double glazing salesmen ) and normally take 30 - 45 minutes ( maximum ) to sort out. Oh, and no money changes hands until after the work is completed.

Anyone interested please pm me, and I'll arrange to give you more info or pop round and sort out the survey if you like ( As a company we are nationwide, so if anyone in other parts of the country is interested, I'll obviously put you in touch with one of the guys more local to you )

The idea behind the insulation is that in the long run you will reduce your emmissions and save money, but most people find the increase in comfort is the best reason to do the work, and the cost makes it a no brainer for many.

Phew. Sorry that's so long winded, and boring.

 

[cm_qs]

What if you don't have cavity walls?

 

[CrapHacker]

Um....

You've just wasted about ten minutes of your life reading that drivel ?

 

[Cernunnos]

Surely there must be some sort of insulating wallcovering option for those without cavity wall insulation for an eqivelent price. Especially if some of us could do with the house being re-rendered, is there nothing for Those of us with 1900 terraces that have solid walls.

 

[Cernunnos]

Um....

You've just wasted about ten minutes of your life reading that drivel ?

btw you must read slowly

 

[cm_qs]

Surely there must be some sort of insulating wallcovering option for those without cavity wall insulation for an eqivelent price. Especially if some of us could do with the house being re-rendered, is there nothing for Those of us with 1900 terraces that have solid walls.

There is.
I've spent the last 3 years and probably the next 2 installing it on high rise tower blocks in Glasgow.

 

[PeterPumpkinEater]

Firstly, Top Man for highlighting this.

I also work within 'the industry' although as a main contractor. I have just installed cavity wall insulation to 10 flats and the contractor has charged me just over £2k to do this, so works out roughly the same. honestly guys you would not beleive the differnce that it will make to your heating bills!

I actually live in a barn conversion and have asked the contractor to come have a look at doing it at my house.

Good on ya CrapHacker for offering your services.

 

[bobmac]

Any chance of GM discount?

 

[viscount17]

my partner recently investigated getting cavity wall insulation and the loft insulation done. The loft worked out fine, except you now can't put anything in the loft as the insulation is so deep.
Problem was we found out she doesn't have cavity walls. It's post-war (late 50's or 60's I think) with timber cladding. No-one mentioned if there was an alternative that she could get.

 

[Andy]

How does a cavity built house breathe after you've filled the cavities?

Andy

 

[andiritchie]

No idea Andy

A new built house with a 100mm cavity will have 50mm insulation allowing breathing

But if you unnaturally fill a house with insultion i not quite sure how it will breathe it must be fine though surely?

 

[Andy]

I heard arguments saying yes and no, curious but I'll not risk filling my cavitites.

My thinking is houses built years ago are far superiour to todays kit builds and they have cavities. That'll do for me.

Andy

 

[andiritchie]

In my little time as a bricklayer 9 years i never done full fill insulation,it must be fine though

Unless you are into Feng Shui

http://www.fionaharrold.com/conversation/index.php?showtopic=3986

 

[CrapHacker]

I heard arguments saying yes and no, curious but I'll not risk filling my cavitites.

My thinking is houses built years ago are far superiour to todays kit builds and they have cavities. That'll do for me.

Andy

The idea of original cavities has nothing to do with the cavity breathing, it was to prevent damp entering the inside of the property.

Earlier builds were twin skin. IE two bricks touching ( if you look at older buildings and see a side on brick alongside an end on brick you can be fairly confident that it is a twin skin ( called Flemish bond, or with a different design, English bond ).

With these properties any rain that absorbs into the outer skin will bridge across the bricks and enter the inside of the house.

So by separating the the two skins of bricks and creating the cavity, the outer brick can get wet, but the inner brick stays dry ( cue questions abut wall ties, maybe ? ). This worked well at the job it was intended to do.

Move forward in time to the 60s and 70s. Central heating became more popular, houses became warmer. But the heat obviously disappears straight out of the cavity, there is nothing there to stop it leaving the property. So early cavity insulation was invented to help keep ther heat in.

Foams were injected into the cavity. These foams were effective insulators, but there were instances of the foam solidifying and bridging the cavity. Once that's happened, damp can transfer across the bricks into the inside of the property, defeating the object of having the damn cavity there in the first place.

But not using modern insulation is like saying you won't drive a modern car because your grandfather had a car in the 60s which gave out loads of lead into the air, and suffered from oil leaks, and kept on breaking down.

Modern cars are a tad more efficient and safer too.

Similarly with modern insulations.

The best product on the market is Knauf Supafil. Developed by the Germans I believe, with true German efficiency.

It's a mineral wool, very similar to cotton wool to touch. And it works like a wooly jumper. It still breaths, but it slows down the movement of air, and keeps the warmth trapped. It's made with recycled bottles alongside the natural minerals, so it CANNOT bridge the cavity.

Basically, without the insulation, when you heat up your house, you have to heat up the outer brick, then the cavity, then the inner brick, before you start heating the room.

With insulation in place, you only heat the inner brick, then the room. So your house warms up quicker, and cools down slower as well. Also, without cavity insulation, your house loses heat constantly through the cavity, so you have to use more energy to keep your house warm.

If you don't believe in double glazing or central heating, by all means ignore cavity insulation. But if you have either or both of them, and do not have a limitless amout of cash, then it makes sense to go for cavity insulation as well.

God I can be sooooo boring about this stuff.

 

[CrapHacker]

No idea Andy

A new built house with a 100mm cavity will have 50mm insulation allowing breathing

But if you unnaturally fill a house with insultion i not quite sure how it will breathe it must be fine though surely?

The modern insulations have been tested by the BBA to the life of the property, and don't forget they come with that independant 25 year guarantee. Because they are mineral wool, they breath perfectly well.

This is a scheme instigated by our wonderful government to help reduce carbon emmissions, and save the planet. The thing about saving money is a fortunate side effect. ( Personally I'm not too sure how much Gordon cares about saving the planet, I think it's so he can look good at all these international summits, and go tut tut, to all those Chinkies, dontchaknow )

 

[CrapHacker]

my partner recently investigated getting cavity wall insulation and the loft insulation done. The loft worked out fine, except you now can't put anything in the loft as the insulation is so deep.
Problem was we found out she doesn't have cavity walls. It's post-war (late 50's or 60's I think) with timber cladding. No-one mentioned if there was an alternative that she could get.

The govt scheme doesn't cover this sort of construction. If you need to insulate the timber frame the best way to remove the plaster board, and fill the stud wall with something like celotex. Damn good stuff, but not cheap, and unfortunately not subsidised either - I was fortunate in as much as I had a water leak insurance claim a few years ago which gave me the chance to clad my daughters bedroom with this stuff ( her room is an extension btw ) and it is now the warmest room in the house.

But that one room cost about 3 times as much as the rest of the house put together.

 

[CrapHacker]

Any chance of GM discount?

Rofl , btw.

 

[Cernunnos]

Surely there must be some sort of insulating wallcovering option for those without cavity wall insulation for an eqivelent price. Especially if some of us could do with the house being re-rendered, is there nothing for Those of us with 1900 terraces that have solid walls.

There is.
I've spent the last 3 years and probably the next 2 installing it on high rise tower blocks in Glasgow.

And...? So what's the product & how do I get it or an equivelent & what if any is the equivelent...?

 

[cm_qs]

Surely there must be some sort of insulating wallcovering option for those without cavity wall insulation for an eqivelent price. Especially if some of us could do with the house being re-rendered, is there nothing for Those of us with 1900 terraces that have solid walls.

There is.
I've spent the last 3 years and probably the next 2 installing it on high rise tower blocks in Glasgow.

And...? So what's the product & how do I get it or an equivelent & what if any is the equivelent...?

The product we're installing across the city is called Permarock. There are numerous other insulated external render systems available some of which may be more suited to application on low rise domestic properties.
There are a few drawbacks to using these sytems though - They effectively increase the wall thickness which means that alterations may be required to the roofline and any rainwater goods. Any vents or other service penetrations through the wall need to be extended to accommodate the additional thickness of the insulation. Same goes for windowcills. The biggest drawback I can see for installation of this type of system to a house is that they are susceptible to mechanical damage. The systems generally comprise a thin coat acrylic render over a thick layer of insulation an this thin shell of render breaks when kids crash bikes in to it or kick a football against it. They can be reinforced however.

Also..... they can be very expensive. Upwards of £100 per square metre would not be unreasonable.

The upside? They will make your house extremely toasty and warm.

 

[PeterPumpkinEater]

So living in a barn conversion with a half brick and half ship-lapped board construction how would this work. During the winter we are getting a hell of a draft through all of the walls. After taking one of the boards off we have found there to be celotex wedged in between the joists and what looks like roof felt as a liner!! Obviously air can find its way through any little gaps and I feel that celotex was not the best insulator. Could you use caity wall insulation in this situation?