Casual water and water hazard

[North Mimms]

We have a yellow staked water hazard which is a concrete channnel with railway sleeper edges with a step down cascasde every 8 feet or so, the cascasdes are quite shallow 6" or so.

The sleepers are not the hazard boundary, the line of yellow stakes are maybe another 6-9" beyond them.

Ball has carried channel and is lying on grass, beyond the sleeper but just inside yellow stakes.
To take a normal stance, right foot will be either on grass inside hazard or on sleeper in hazard.
Both are very wet and slippery because of splashing from the cascade.

Player wants relief from casual water as grass is very mushy.

I maintain that you can't get relief for casual water inside line of water hazard.
Was i right or wrong?

And would it have made any difference if ball had been OUTSIDE hazard , but foot still inside?

 

[DaveM]

No relief as the ball is in the hazard. Can take the normal penalty drop associated with water hazards. Or play it as it lies for no penalty.

The last part think you can only take an unplayable ball drop with penalty, or play as it lies. But not 100% on that, but thats how I read it.

 

[Mattyboy]

I am sure that you cant have casual water within a water hazard. So you were right and no relief can be given even if the ball was not within the hazard.

Of course, casual water can exist within other hazards (e.g. bunkers) but free relief cannot result in a drop outside of the hazard (unless the bunker has been declared out of play which was discussed in a recent thread).

 

[chrisd]

I am sure that you cant have casual water within a water hazard. So you were right and no relief can be given even if the ball was not within the hazard.

Of course, casual water can exist within other hazards (e.g. bunkers) but free relief cannot result in a drop outside of the hazard (unless the bunker has been declared out of play which was discussed in a recent thread).

I agree with other replies with regard to the first question. I am sure that if the ball is not in the hazard then the normal relief for casual water would apply

 

[North Mimms]

So if ball was outside hazard but "wet" foot was INSIDE hazard.....

Relief or no?

 

[chrisd]

So if ball was outside hazard but "wet" foot was INSIDE hazard.....

Relief or no?

Ball outside hazard = relief, is my answer

 

[MashieNiblick]

You can't have casual water in a water hazard. The water in a water hazard is er... the water hazard. So no relief if the ball is outside the hazard but you are standing in a wet bit within the boundary of the hazard.

Definition of Casual water

"Casual water" is any temporary accumulation of water on the course that is not in a water hazard and is visible before or after the player takes his stance. Snow and natural ice, other than frost, are either casual water or loose impediments, at the option of the player. Manufactured ice is an obstruction. Dew and frost are not casual water.

A ball is in casual water when it lies in or any part of it touches the casual water.

 

[North Mimms]

Thanks chaps. I'm glad i was right.

They ended up taking standard water hazard penalty rather than play the ball as it lay, but won the hole anyway with the most stupendous putt.
My partner and I were actually pleased that they won the hole, as it meant there was no bad feeling about me refusing relief.