Carillion. Close to going bust.

drdel said:
I'm interested by the fact the BBC among others in the media are critical of the fat-cat bosses who were paid around £500K+ pa.

Interesting in that the BBC quite happily pays the likes of John Humphries (~£650K PA) and other medium level 'finger-pointing' presenters well in excess of these so-called "....fat cats..." just for sitting in front of a microphone with little or no responsibility for anyone !!!
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Are the BBC critical or reporting the criticisms of others. Besides - comparing salaries of front-line Radio/TV presenters/personalities with board members of a private company is surely comparing apples with oranges. Whataboot Premier League footballers on £50k-£100k a week? What responsibility do they have for anyone other than themselves.
 
The point is they are calling them Fat Cats. Call them bosses but by adding Fat Cat to it they are making it a derogatory term. As has been mentioned that is hypocritical when they employ many people on greater salaries. Should Chris Evans now be introduced on his R2 show as Chris Evans Fat Cat? They should report the facts, not give it an angle.
 
word has it that restructuring and refinancing plans were agreed and in place for March - just need short term government support to keep the company afloat. For whatever reasons - and they will almost certainly be purely Tory political calculations (probably following the furore around Virgin and Stagecoach) - the government has decided against providing that short term support - and so Carillion collapses putting the jobs and lives of tens of thousands into a tailspin. The government could have prevented this.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
word has it that restructuring and refinancing plans were agreed and in place for March - just need short term government support to keep the company afloat. For whatever reasons - and they will almost certainly be purely Tory political calculations (probably following the furore around Virgin and Stagecoach) - the government has decided against providing that short term support - and so Carillion collapses putting the jobs and lives of tens of thousands into a tailspin. The government could have prevented this.
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You can find Tories and Government incompetence at every turn ! I'm sure there's even a way to spin this and blame Theresa May - despite the numerous contracts awarded by Labour/Blair et al.

I think you'll find their undercutting of sensible bids (and lack of revenue/growth with new contracts) has led to over-exposure and hence to their downfall from an inability to fund the cashflow.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
word has it that restructuring and refinancing plans were agreed and in place for March - just need short term government support to keep the company afloat. For whatever reasons - and they will almost certainly be purely Tory political calculations (probably following the furore around Virgin and Stagecoach) - the government has decided against providing that short term support - and so Carillion collapses putting the jobs and lives of tens of thousands into a tailspin. The government could have prevented this.
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When it comes to governments, especially Tory. there is a lot they could of done to save industry's and jobs, mining, steel, railways, post offices, water company's, BT, NHS through back door privatisation etc etc. Is anyone actually gonna try and convince me things are better now they are all privatised.

I don't like to finish a post on a downer so on a positive, our emergency services are doing a fantastic job, but are still having a bit more funding cut, according to the Government.
 
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Tashyboy said:
When it comes to governments, especially Tory. there is a lot they could of done to save industry's and jobs, mining, steel, railways, post offices, water company's, BT, NHS through back door privatisation etc etc. Is anyone actually gonna try and convince me things are better now they are all privatised.

I don't like to finish a post on a downer so on a positive, our emergency services are doing a fantastic job, but are still having a bit more funding cut, according to the Government.
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True Tashy boy. always makes me laugh when Tories have a dig at Labour for bailing out the banks. like they woudln't have done the same... the only industry they would as well:rofl:
 
Lord Tyrion said:
The point is they are calling them Fat Cats. Call them bosses but by adding Fat Cat to it they are making it a derogatory term. As has been mentioned that is hypocritical when they employ many people on greater salaries. Should Chris Evans now be introduced on his R2 show as Chris Evans Fat Cat? They should report the facts, not give it an angle.
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I like this idea actually
 
Lord Tyrion said:
The point is they are calling them Fat Cats. Call them bosses but by adding Fat Cat to it they are making it a derogatory term. As has been mentioned that is hypocritical when they employ many people on greater salaries. Should Chris Evans now be introduced on his R2 show as Chris Evans Fat Cat? They should report the facts, not give it an angle.
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I agree - the BBC should not be describing the bosses of Carillion as Fat Cats unless quoting a 3rd party.

But I don't buy the accusation of hypocrisy - even if the BBC did actually believe the description - which it shouldn't as it should be impartial and not using such subjective and derogatory terms. I do not believe that you can compare such as BBC 'stars' who have no wider duty of care to others, with bosses of companies who enrich themselves and their shareholders whilst their employees struggle along.

The bosses of a plc have a duty of care to it's employees and pensioners - but of course the board of a plc has as it's primary objective to maximise shareholder return. That is where we run into serious conflict of interest - when the number 1 priority of a PLC is not to it's employees or the customers it has to service, but to it's shareholders.
 
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drdel said:
You can find Tories and Government incompetence at every turn ! I'm sure there's even a way to spin this and blame Theresa May - despite the numerous contracts awarded by Labour/Blair et al.

I think you'll find their undercutting of sensible bids (and lack of revenue/growth with new contracts) has led to over-exposure and hence to their downfall from an inability to fund the cashflow.
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With the way government is cutting budgets there is probably no sensible and manageable risk bid that a company can make for most government business these days. Quite apart from that I am telling you that the government could have intervened with short term financial support and Carillion would not be where it is today. Everything else was agreed and in place.

And of course we can play whatabootery about Labour and the past - Carillion is TODAY - and the government could quite easily have saved it. Clearly the Carillion bossses have less financial clout than Richard Branson and Brian Souter.
 
What if they are simply a badly run company who were losing money too regularly? I've yet to hear a good word about them in any form. Should the gov't use public money to keep an incompetent company going? You would only do that, as they do, with a gov't dept / nationalised industry and Carillion are not that.
 
I dont really see any difference between Carillion and the public purse guzzling nationalised industries as they were.
At the end of the day, its always the taxpayer that carries the can. Ultimately hard hitting union grandees are no different to overpaid and incompitent bosses.
It's those who lose their jobs I feel sorry for.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
What if they are simply a badly run company who were losing money too regularly? I've yet to hear a good word about them in any form. Should the gov't use public money to keep an incompetent company going? You would only do that, as they do, with a gov't dept / nationalised industry and Carillion are not that.
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Plus, what precedent does it set when it starts bailing out failing private companies. I for one would of been pretty bogged off if they had, they never helped me. They never referred my pit to the EU in which they could of helped so why start now. The only financial package that carillon worker will now get is through the PPF
( pension) fund which everyone is paying towards.
Dont think for one minute that its all doom and gloom, some vultures will already be hovering over some of the now defunct contracts/jobs.
 
Tashyboy said:
Dont think for one minute that its all doom and gloom, some vultures will already be hovering over some of the now defunct contracts/jobs.
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A lot of their contracts are within PFI or similar type deals where there are agreed procedures to replace the service provider in the event of a default like this. Those discussions that are now ongoing about who will provide the services - school dinners, facilities management etc. - will put some strain on the rest of the industry and I have heard that some competitors are likely to recruit Carillion staff to enable them to step in.
Know thats only small comfort to employees in that part of the business - less rosy for those in the construction side.
 
16/01/18 I wrote:

word has it that restructuring and refinancing plans were agreed and in place for March - just need short term government support to keep the company afloat. For whatever reasons - and they will almost certainly be purely Tory political calculations (probably following the furore around Virgin and Stagecoach) - the government has decided against providing that short term support - and so Carillion collapses putting the jobs and lives of tens of thousands into a tailspin. The government could have prevented this.

got this reply

drdel said:
You can find Tories and Government incompetence at every turn ! I'm sure there's even a way to spin this and blame Theresa May - despite the numerous contracts awarded by Labour/Blair et al.

I think you'll find their undercutting of sensible bids (and lack of revenue/growth with new contracts) has led to over-exposure and hence to their downfall from an inability to fund the cashflow.
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And so today we hear what Carillion Directors Khan and Cochrane are saying about uncertainty caused by Brexit and the 2017 GE and what the government could have done to help the stricken company,
 
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Val said:
In laymans terms then, swerve, deflect and blame the government. No surprise really.
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Khan does not seem to have an axe to grind for the company and little or no responsibility for the mess Carillion got themselves into - indeed I believe he unearthed the financial 'black hole' - Cochrane was also fairly late onto the Carillion Board (July 2015).

The reports I have heard do not suggest they are trying to deflect responsibility for the mess - but as my source said - there was a restructuring and refinancing plan developed that was felt would work - but they needed a relatively small 'bridging loan' from the government. My source tells me that what has happened now will actually cost the taxpayer a lot more than had the government just provided the loan.

And so the simple question is - why did the government not provide the loan? Collapse of Carillion; job losses; impact on suppliers; huge pension fund issues etc - all might have been avoided or could have been resolvable if the loan requested had been made.
 
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