Can you touch your ball?

[sawtooth]

If you are in rough or on the fairway (no preferred lies)?

I had a mud ball situation the other day the mud was simply sat on the top of the ball facing up and I felt like picking it off. I didnt because I wasnt sure of the ruling.

Technically the ball would not have moved one iota and I could of done this without even touching the ball (directly I mean).

Anyone know?

 

[backwoodsman]

You did the right thing by leaving it alone. When it's on the green, you can lift & clean at your choice, but for the most part, you can't clean it (although implementing some rules occasionally permit it - but doesn't sound like that was applicable in this case). Usually a big dollop of mud is bad luck...

 

[sawtooth]

Cheers. I'm aware of the pick and place rule I just wasnt 100% sure about the technicality if you dont actually make contact with the ball and that the ball doesnt move. So you think it may under no circumstances can you clean the ball regardless if you can lift a loose bit of mud of the top of the ball without touching the ball or making it move?

To me its not much different moving a loose twig that may be on your ball. You can move that away providing the ball doesnt move.

 

[duncan mackie]

it is different because the twig is a Loose Impediment and the mud isn't (unless it's a worm cast)

however, the key point is that touching something adhereing to the ball is the same as touching it, and you can't use a stick to do it either. purposely touching would be the breach rather than moving. the full wording of that section of the rules might help you

Except as permitted by the Rules, when a player’s ball is in play, if:
(i) the player, his partner or either of their caddies:
lifts or moves the ball,
touches it purposely (except with a club in the act of addressing the ball), or
causes it to move, or
(ii) the equipment of the player or his partner causes the ball to move,

the player incurs a penalty of one stroke

 

[BTatHome]

There is no way that you can be sure that it won't move the ball. Mud can easily be stuck via the smallest point and cause movement, same is said for sticks and leaves, moving one could cause it to move ... Personally unless I can see that it's 110% not connected/touching then I don't touch it, even worse when longer grass is around as moving something 6inches away can still cause the ball to shift.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Good question given the wet conditions. Have done a bit of research as follows.

In addition to the Rule on touching your ball you can only clean a ball during play of a hole in certain circumstances and you can't remove anything adhering to your ball.

Rule 21 - Cleaning Ball

A ball on the putting green may be cleaned when lifted under Rule 16-1b. Elsewhere, a ball may be cleaned when lifted, except when it has been lifted:
a. To determine if it is unfit for play (Rule 5-3);
b. For identification (Rule 12-2), in which case it may be cleaned only to the extent necessary for identification; or
c. Because it is assisting or interfering with play (Rule 22).
If a player cleans his ball during play of a hole except as provided in this Rule, he incurs a penalty of one stroke and the ball, if lifted, must be replaced.
If a player who is required to replace a ball fails to do so, he incurs the general penalty under the applicable Rule, but there is no additional penalty under Rule 21.

Decision 21/2 Removing Grass Adhering to Ball

Q. Through the green, is it permissible to remove cut grass adhering to a ball?

A. No. Such action is prohibited by Rule 21. Anything adhering to a ball is not a loose impediment – see Definition of “Loose Impediments”.

A live insect is however a loose impediment and not considered to be adhering to a ball so you can remove those by blowing or picking them off (Decision23-1/5 Removal of Insect on Ball). Be careful though as it's still a penalty if you touch the ball or the ball moves. However, as it's a loose impediment you can't touch the insect if your ball is a bunker (23-1/5.5 Status of Insect on Ball in Bunker) but you can shoo it away.

One thing worth noting in Rule 21 is that if you mark and lift your ball off the green because it is interfereing with another player's stroke you can't clean your ball. I always try to remember to place it on the ground somewhere out of the way so I don't absent mindedly rub it with my fingers or roll it in my hands. Even putting it in your pocket could result in the ball being "cleaned" and you'd be pinged (FAQs to Rule 21).

 

[MashieNiblick]

Done some more research and have to correct the above. There is no penalty for accidently touching the ball in removing a loose impediment providing the ball doesn't move. Decision 18-2a/31 Ball Touched Accidentally in Removing Loose Impediments.

 

[JustOne]

I think I'm right in saying that if you lift your ball, when there's a big blob of mud on it, you should replace it in the same position and not try to 'rotate' it so that the mud is out of the way.

 

[chrisd]

I guess thats the reasoning behind the need to mark and lift the ball to identify as you arn't allowed to spin it on the spot - if you could you would be probably cleaning it too

 

[pogle]

I think I'm right in saying that if you lift your ball, when there's a big blob of mud on it, you should replace it in the same position and not try to 'rotate' it so that the mud is out of the way.

That's not correct. See Decision 21/5
Q. A player lifts the ball under a Rule which does not permit cleaning. When he replaces the ball, may he place it facing another direction so that the mud would not interfere between the clubface and the ball?

A. Yes, provided the ball is replaced on the spot from which it was lifted. However, if the player rotated the ball in such a way so as to “tee” it on the mud, he would be in breach of Rule 20-3a.

 

[pogle]

I guess thats the reasoning behind the need to mark and lift the ball to identify as you arn't allowed to spin it on the spot - if you could you would be probably cleaning it too

You are allowed to rotate the ball in place to identify it, but you need to mark it first and ensure you don't clean it beyond what is required to be able to identify it.
Decision 12-2/2

Q. A ball is half buried in the rough. Having announced his intention in advance to his opponent, marker or fellow-competitor, the player, for the purpose of identifying the ball, touches the ball and rotates it. By so doing he identifies the ball as his ball. Is there a penalty?

A. Yes, for touching the ball other than as provided for in the Rules (Rule 18-2a). Under Rules 12-2 and 20-1, a ball may be lifted (or touched and rotated) for identification purposes after its position has been marked. If the player had marked the position of the ball before rotating it, there would have been no penalty, assuming the rotating did not result in the ball being cleaned beyond the extent necessary to identify it.