Can you drop off a path in to GUR and then get further relief?

[Rosemi1623]

Hi. Today we had a situation where a ball was on the left hand side of a path and the nearest point of relief is a GUR area.
Is it right to drop in to GUR and then take the GUR drop 1 club from the edge of GUR which happens to be the fairway?

 

[louise_a]

The definition of NPR in the rules is

the point on the course nearest to where the ball lies:

i.that is not nearer the hole, and

ii.where, if the ball were so positioned, no interference by the condition from which relief is sought would exist for the stroke the player would have made from the original position if the condition were not there.

So no mention of not taking it in GUR.

 

[Liverbirdie]

The definition of NPR in the rules is

the point on the course nearest to where the ball lies:

i.that is not nearer the hole, and

ii.where, if the ball were so positioned, no interference by the condition from which relief is sought would exist for the stroke the player would have made from the original position if the condition were not there.

So no mention of not taking it in GUR.

Have you been to a rules night, recently?

 

[Fish]

I had a situation a few years back at a previous club when playing in a matchplay pairs comp against a rules stickler.

I'd drove into a lateral hazard and my ball was right beside a path, I collected my ball, stood on the path and knew I couldn't play it off the path and then went back onto the grass behind the path to what I believed then to be my NPR. I then dropped my ball and played it.

This rules stickler then came bowling over to me having watched me do this and knowing I was new to the game called me out over it!

He said I should have dropped the ball on the path even knowing it couldn't be played off it as that indeed was my NPR and THEN pick it back up and drop it again on the grass where I had and then played the ball!

A few choice words were exchanged as I couldn't understand that if I knew I couldn't play the ball where my NPR was what was the point of dropping it their only to pick it back up again and move to where I had dropped it in the first place!

And we wonder why we have slow play at times!

It was nice to beat him then though

 

[pogle]

As Loiuse says dropping off a path onto a GUR is okay, but it is permissable for a Local Rule that turns an area of GUR that is adjoining an immovable obstructions (such as a path) to be considered part of the IO. In this case you must also drop out side the GUR area. All England Golf events have this Local Rule in place as part of their Hard Card.

So check your LRs as you no doubt always do.

 

[Lump]

Another question regarding relief and paths.

A ball lies on a path, closer to the right hand edge. But if you drop on the right side of said path, you have to move further away so as not to go closer to the hole. Now if you drop to the further away left edge, you can take a direct drop without having to adjust due to proximity to hole. Which drop is correct?

I see it as you take relief to the right edge, as that is the NPR, distance you have to adjust your drop due to proximity to hole is just part of the rule, NPR- No closer to the hole.

 

[Lump]

Another question regarding relief and paths.

A ball lies on a path, closer to the right hand edge. But if you drop on the right side of said path, you have to move further away so as not to go closer to the hole. Now if you drop to the further away left edge, you can take a direct drop without having to adjust due to proximity to hole. Which drop is correct?

I see it as you take relief to the right edge, as that is the NPR, distance you have to adjust your drop due to proximity to hole is just part of the rule, NPR- No closer to the hole.

Actually, just having re-read the rules. I'm not entirely sure.

 

[Foxholer]

Hi. Today we had a situation where a ball was on the left hand side of a path and the nearest point of relief is a GUR area.
Is it right to drop in to GUR and then take the GUR drop 1 club from the edge of GUR which happens to be the fairway?

Local Rules preventing such action notwhisthanding...Yes!

Each drop from a particular condition is a separate event - as Fish found out to his cost in the situation he described.

It's not possible to be certain where the ball will end up after the drop into GUR, so the drop must be done to find out! And play from GUR is not always prohibited either.

 

[Foxholer]

Another question regarding relief and paths.

A ball lies on a path, closer to the right hand edge. But if you drop on the right side of said path, you have to move further away so as not to go closer to the hole. Now if you drop to the further away left edge, you can take a direct drop without having to adjust due to proximity to hole. Which drop is correct?

I see it as you take relief to the right edge, as that is the NPR, distance you have to adjust your drop due to proximity to hole is just part of the rule, NPR- No closer to the hole.

'Not nearer the hole' is part of the definition of NPR!

So if ball will strike ground dropped, to the right of the path, further away from where it currently lies than if it is dropped from the left of the path, then the left hand side is NPR! Also worth noting that it's where the ball will hit the ground, not where the player will stand to do so. And it's solely from the condition that currently applies - so NPR could possibly be in an unplayable position (like in/under a bush!)!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I had a situation a few years back at a previous club when playing in a matchplay pairs comp against a rules stickler.

I'd drove into a lateral hazard and my ball was right beside a path, I collected my ball, stood on the path and knew I couldn't play it off the path and then went back onto the grass behind the path to what I believed then to be my NPR. I then dropped my ball and played it.

This rules stickler then came bowling over to me having watched me do this and knowing I was new to the game called me out over it!

He said I should have dropped the ball on the path even knowing it couldn't be played off it as that indeed was my NPR and THEN pick it back up and drop it again on the grass where I had and then played the ball!

A few choice words were exchanged as I couldn't understand that if I knew I couldn't play the ball where my NPR was what was the point of dropping it their only to pick it back up again and move to where I had dropped it in the first place!

And we wonder why we have slow play at times!

It was nice to beat him then though

To be fair - however unlikely - it was possible that your ball could have bounced on the path and/or rolled to a position where you would not have got relief.

 

[Fish]

To be fair - however unlikely - it was possible that your ball could have bounced on the path and/or rolled to a position where you would not have got relief.

It could have only bounced forwards which would be nearer the hole or come to rest on the path, otherwise it would be back in the hazard, it was a nonsense and the win tasted great 😎

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Hi. Today we had a situation where a ball was on the left hand side of a path and the nearest point of relief is a GUR area.
Is it right to drop in to GUR and then take the GUR drop 1 club from the edge of GUR which happens to be the fairway?

As has been said you must take the various actions serially so drop it in the GUR if NPR then drop again for that relief.

I did get caught out once then refereeing in a similar situation when the guy took relief from a path on the left and when he then stood to play it I realised he was left handed so the relief should have been on the right.

If I had been with the match I would have known but now try to remember to ask.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It could have only bounced forwards which would be nearer the hole or come to rest on the path, otherwise it would be back in the hazard, it was a nonsense and the win tasted great 😎

appreciate that - but circumstantial and subjective.

 

[duncan mackie]

Another question regarding relief and paths.

A ball lies on a path, closer to the right hand edge. But if you drop on the right side of said path, you have to move further away so as not to go closer to the hole. Now if you drop to the further away left edge, you can take a direct drop without having to adjust due to proximity to hole. Which drop is correct?

I see it as you take relief to the right edge, as that is the NPR, distance you have to adjust your drop due to proximity to hole is just part of the rule, NPR- No closer to the hole.

NPR is a matter of fact; and in such instances if there is any doubt at all you should establish the point clear of interference on both sides of the path and measure which is closest to the original ball.
Concerned that you assume that "relief to the right edge" will be nearest - this will depend on the width of the path and it's angle to the hole for a right handed golfer. For a left handed one it will almost certainly be the case.

 

[AlanMills]

To the OP, not only can you drop on the path, you MUST or you get a penalty.
Decision 25-1b/11.5 clearly states you cannot take relief from two 'obstructions' in one drop.

 

[backwoodsman]

Another question regarding relief and paths.

A ball lies on a path, closer to the right hand edge. But if you drop on the right side of said path, you have to move further away so as not to go closer to the hole. Now if you drop to the further away left edge, you can take a direct drop without having to adjust due to proximity to hole. Which drop is correct?

I see it as you take relief to the right edge, as that is the NPR, distance you have to adjust your drop due to proximity to hole is just part of the rule, NPR- No closer to the hole.

Following on from Duncan's post ...

There is only one NPR. You just have to work out the nearest point, not nearer the hole, where both the ball and your stance are clear of the obstruction. For a ball in a given location on a path, it is quite possible that someone who plays standing close to the ball might have NPR on one side of the path and someone else who stands a long way from ball has NPR on the other.

 

[bladeplayer]

Following on from Duncan's post ...

There is only one NPR. You just have to work out the nearest point, not nearer the hole, where both the ball and your stance are clear of the obstruction. For a ball in a given location on a path, it is quite possible that someone who plays standing close to the ball might have NPR on one side of the path and someone else who stands a long way from ball has NPR on the other.

...
Unless note 3 ( i think} is applied under a local rule then the NPR is not actually the actual NPR

 

[backwoodsman]

...
Unless note 3 ( i think} is applied under a local rule then the NPR is not actually the actual NPR

Err... but surely

If a supposed NPR is not actually the NPR then its not the NPR and the actual NPR is the one & only NPR.
(At least I know what I mean.)

 

[rulefan]

...
Unless note 3 ( i think} is applied under a local rule then the NPR is not actually the actual NPR

Do you not mean if note 3 is applied then the NPR used is not the NPR as measured through the obstruction?

RH player. Imagine a 9" thick wall running parallel to play. The ball is 6" to the right. The NPR is probably 6" to the left (ie 21" from the ball. If note 3 applies, the effective NPR must be to the right (ie some few feet away).

But I always have trouble imagining this one.

 

[bladeplayer]

Err... but surely

If a supposed NPR is not actually the NPR then its not the NPR and the actual NPR is the one & only NPR.
(At least I know what I mean.)

Ther is only one NPR , but that is overruled by the LR , so the proper NPR cant be used , so we use the NPR not going through the obstruction so "technically" it is not the NPR from the obstruction

Do you not mean if note 3 is applied then the NPR used is not the NPR as measured through the obstruction?

RH player. Imagine a 9" thick wall running parallel to play. The ball is 6" to the right. The NPR is probably 6" to the left (ie 21" from the ball. If note 3 applies, the effective NPR must be to the right (ie some few feet away).

But I always have trouble imagining this one.

..
Yep so technically not the "actual" NPR but the revised by LR NPR ..

Have played a course local to me with this LR in force