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Can someone wrap a 9-iron round Harriet Harman's head?

Paul_Stewart said:
I am all for equality in life, even for the Welsh but Harriet Har-person as Private Eye likes to call her, does seem to bend the rules when it suits her. There are times when you have to use common sense (small female wheelchair user probably not going to get a job as an active fire-fighter) but HH picks and chooses when to apply the rules.
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She is a ultra feminist left wing loon. Not much else to say really and as you say a total hypocrite
 
Hacker Khan said:
If you are a politician then you have to do self promotion. It is one of the few jobs in which you are elected by the great British public. Who can be caring, erudite, intelligent, bigoted, racist, sexist and many more in between. And that's just this Forum, be dum tish.....

So as a large part of their working existence depends on them appealing to the public and being popular, then of course they will engage in self promotion. It's a bit naive not expecting them to.

I am not saying they are the best out there, but we, the great British public, have put them in that position. So we only have ourselves to blame. And show me someone who is not doing their job for financial enhancement? As mentioned in another thread, there are a lot of politicians out there doing a lot of hard work who in my opinion are underpaid compared to other jobs, so you do not join politics to become rich.
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Hacker, have we, the Great British Public put them in their position, or have they put themselves there? Notwithstanding the fact that unless you obtain over 50% of the turnout then more people didn't think you were the man (or woman) for the job, what other choice do we have in how we are represented? And if we don't like the current system what can we do; go to Parliament, via our MP, to get the system changed? More chance of turkeys voting for Christmas.

Looking round "Great" Britain we appear to have huge problems with illegal immigration, NHS Tourists bleeding the NHS dry, phoney asylum seekers, unemployment, corporations that pay as little tax as they like, threats of terrorist attacks, rising crime and pensioners living on the breadline. Once Harriet Hormoan, Alex Salmond and the 640-odd others have cured some or preferably all these whilst managing not to misunderstand their expenses system, and whilst living their lives in a manner that sets us an example to follow rather than telling us what to do whilst doing the opposite themselves, then they will have earned my respect and the right to worry about an all male golf club in Scotland. Until then I'd prefer that they worried about what I consider to be more pressing matters, rather than use the fact that The Open is at an all-male golf club for a bit of opportunistic self-promotion.
 
FairwayDodger said:
This place gets worse. Joking about violence against a woman for daring to have an opinion on gender equality. Not funny, whether you agree with her or not.

I think she's one of the better MPs BTW..... which, admittedly, isn't saying much!
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For once I agree with FD's post. Violence against women is abhorrent and should never be encouraged even in jest. I just want to know how she has time to get involved in politics, she has ironing and cleaning to do and after watching Loose Women before getting the tea ready I do not know how she does it.
 
SocketRocket said:
Is it not a poor reflection on the goal of equality in Golf Clubs that such things as 'Ladies Sections' exist at all. True equality can only be achieved by full integration whereby lady members play in the same competitions, integrate in the same committees and play in the same competitions as Men. Why is there a need for a separate Ladies Day, there is no such thing as Men's Day, only competitions and events that Ladies have decided not to take part in.
I can just about see that Mixed Golf Comps are OK but thats about all. A local club had a Lady club Captain last year, now that was a step forward for equality.
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Disagree onthis - Ladies and Gents play golf in different ways because 'the great Creator' - sexist that he is - made men physically different and stronger than women. As a result the vast majority of women play a subtly different game from blokes - and hence have different tees, pars and SIs. Ladies comps therefore MUST be organised separately from gents comps - and for that to happen you have to have ladies and ladies comps 'managed' on different grounds and assumptions from gents'. And hence it only makes sense for the ladies to organise and manage their own affairs. Imagine then the fuss if a club insisted that the ladies had to involve gents in all their decisiobn making. Wouldn't be allowed. And so a separate Ladies section in a golf club makes total sense in the context of the great game that we all play.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Disagree onthis - Ladies and Gents play golf in different ways because 'the great Creator' - sexist that he is - made men physically different and stronger than women. As a result the vast majority of women play a subtly different game from blokes - and hence have different tees, pars and SIs. Ladies comps therefore MUST be organised separately from gents comps - and for that to happen you have to have ladies and ladies comps 'managed' on different grounds and assumptions from gents'. And hence it only makes sense for the ladies to organise and manage their own affairs. Imagine then the fuss if a club insisted that the ladies had to involve gents in all their decisiobn making. Wouldn't be allowed. And so a separate Ladies section in a golf club makes total sense in the context of the great game that we all play.
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Absolutely agree. Which is why the Equalities Act didn't work for golf clubs.
 
Here's a novel idea. A group of gentlemen decide to purchase some land - using their own money - and build themselves a really nice golf course and clubhouse; again using their own money. They then agree that they would like their club to be a private members club, restrict the membership numbers, and decide that the membership is 'men only', but visitors - males and females - can pay to play on their course.

Now some of the wives of the gentlemen think "we'd love our own club too" and do exactly the same as their husbands but for ladies only. Both the gentlemen and the ladies are perfectly happy with the arrangement.

But also within a 20 minute drive of both these clubs are 3 others that are private and public and offer mixed memberships.

So you have 5 golf clubs offering a golfing experience for both sexes, catering for all abilities and budgets, and all co-existing in perfect harmony. Now can someone please explain to me where the problem is in that?
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Disagree onthis - Ladies and Gents play golf in different ways because 'the great Creator' - sexist that he is - made men physically different and stronger than women. As a result the vast majority of women play a subtly different game from blokes - and hence have different tees, pars and SIs. Ladies comps therefore MUST be organised separately from gents comps - and for that to happen you have to have ladies and ladies comps 'managed' on different grounds and assumptions from gents'. And hence it only makes sense for the ladies to organise and manage their own affairs. Imagine then the fuss if a club insisted that the ladies had to involve gents in all their decisiobn making. Wouldn't be allowed. And so a separate Ladies section in a golf club makes total sense in the context of the great game that we all play.
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There are ways to allow for the differences you mention: Red tees, stroke allowances etc. I cant see how ladies play a different game to Men, its played on the same course to the same rules. These issues are no reason for Ladies to play in separate competitions and have a separate section. In my experience separate sections always bring with them animosity.
 
FairwayDodger said:
This place gets worse. Joking about violence against a woman for daring to have an opinion on gender equality. Not funny, whether you agree with her or not.

I think she's one of the better MPs BTW..... which, admittedly, isn't saying much!
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To help remove the sex discrimination I would suggest that the 9 iron is also used on Ed Balls.
 
SocketRocket said:
There are ways to allow for the differences you mention: Red tees, stroke allowances etc. I cant see how ladies play a different game to Men, its played on the same course to the same rules. These issues are no reason for Ladies to play in separate competitions and have a separate section. In my experience separate sections always bring with them animosity.
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Have you considered that the female members probably feel more comfortable playing together as a group? If you look at the amount of anti female golfer comments from posters on this forum, who are probably representative proportionally to the golfing public of UK, then is it any surprise really? There are those that are anti female and don't care who knows it, there are also those who are anti female but would be aghast if you suggested they were. Invariably the same people who are anti senior and anti junior.

Think long and hard, how often do the female members of the forum get involved in the pathetic (metaphorical) willie waving and childish spats on the forum? They don't. Do you think that certain forum 'attitudes' and mind sets are carried forward to the course? I would say it is inevitable.

Golf really doesn't need many more white, male, middle aged golfers playing the game; it's probably at its maximum potential in that regard. It does need to encourage kids, for obvious reasons. Clubs also need (for survivability) to encourage under-represented groups to participate, if that means setting aside a couple of hours for the ladies (or the juniors for that matter) then I really can't see the problem.

Some will claim that this is discriminating against males, it isn't; it is positive discrimination in favour of an under represented group. It's legal and also ultimately sensible.
 
SocketRocket said:
To help remove the sex discrimination I would suggest that the 9 iron is also used on Ed Balls.
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If we're playing that game can I add Michael Gove to the list of possibles to be hit with a 9 iron.

Although I'm sure that in our modern gender equality world someone will be along shortly to tell me that "joking about violence against a man isn't funny".
 
I am sorry I have discriminated here against 9-irons. All the clubs should have a chance to be used in this exercise. And as for one or two of the posts actually thinking we are suggesting hitting a woman with a metal object, you really need to get a life.
 
Paul_Stewart said:
I am sorry I have discriminated here against 9-irons. All the clubs should have a chance to be used in this exercise. And as for one or two of the posts actually thinking we are suggesting hitting a woman with a metal object, you really need to get a life.
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To be fair to this post it is all sexist from the start, wimmin cannot hit a 9 iron as far as men so unless they were 60 yrds closer to Miss Harmon than a man they probably wouldn't reach.
 
...and my club has a ladies academy and a separate gents academy. Whilst we may not tell blokes they can't join the ladies academy (maybe we do - would that be sexist?) - I'm guessing that the ladies actually don't want blokes in their academy.
 
stevie_r said:
Have you considered that the female members probably feel more comfortable playing together as a group? If you look at the amount of anti female golfer comments from posters on this forum, who are probably representative proportionally to the golfing public of UK, then is it any surprise really? There are those that are anti female and don't care who knows it, there are also those who are anti female but would be aghast if you suggested they were. Invariably the same people who are anti senior and anti junior.

Think long and hard, how often do the female members of the forum get involved in the pathetic (metaphorical) willie waving and childish spats on the forum? They don't. Do you think that certain forum 'attitudes' and mind sets are carried forward to the course? I would say it is inevitable.

Golf really doesn't need many more white, male, middle aged golfers playing the game; it's probably at its maximum potential in that regard. It does need to encourage kids, for obvious reasons. Clubs also need (for survivability) to encourage under-represented groups to participate, if that means setting aside a couple of hours for the ladies (or the juniors for that matter) then I really can't see the problem.

Some will claim that this is discriminating against males, it isn't; it is positive discrimination in favour of an under represented group. It's legal and also ultimately sensible.
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I absolutely agree with your point on female golfers being more comfortable playing as a group and this was certainly the case at my club. They wanted to compete on a "level playing field". Fair enough.
I absolutely disagree about spats. That is one big generalisation. I am also tiring of white male bashing in golf. Our game definately needs more middle aged white males, just as much as any other "category". Have you considered where golf would be without middle aged, white males? There would be very few clubs indeed and they should not be castigated for wanting to play a sport, when we applaud every other colour, creed, sex, religion for wanting to do the exact same thing.
There is not and should not be any such thing as positive discrimination. Discrimination is discrimination. End of. The Equalities Act does not allow positive discrimination. That is one thing Mrs. Harman did get right. It does allow clubs to target certain groups for membership, but under quite strict circumstances and the club risks being challenged under the act. After all, the middle aged white male is entitled to equality as well.
 
..and after all - are we not just talking about a gents club that has a golf course - and into the bargain a golf course that ladies and indeed just about anybody can play. Which is more that can be said for gentleman's and ladies clubs in St James' etc. that have a nice dining facility. A lady or if not a member looking to lunch in a gents club - not really much hope of that.

So as far as gents clubs go - the Hon COmpamny of Golfers is really quite enlightened :)
 
stevie_r said:
Have you considered that the female members probably feel more comfortable playing together as a group? If you look at the amount of anti female golfer comments from posters on this forum, who are probably representative proportionally to the golfing public of UK, then is it any surprise really? There are those that are anti female and don't care who knows it, there are also those who are anti female but would be aghast if you suggested they were. Invariably the same people who are anti senior and anti junior.

Think long and hard, how often do the female members of the forum get involved in the pathetic (metaphorical) willie waving and childish spats on the forum? They don't. Do you think that certain forum 'attitudes' and mind sets are carried forward to the course? I would say it is inevitable.

Golf really doesn't need many more white, male, middle aged golfers playing the game; it's probably at its maximum potential in that regard. It does need to encourage kids, for obvious reasons. Clubs also need (for survivability) to encourage under-represented groups to participate, if that means setting aside a couple of hours for the ladies (or the juniors for that matter) then I really can't see the problem.

Some will claim that this is discriminating against males, it isn't; it is positive discrimination in favour of an under represented group. It's legal and also ultimately sensible.
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So would you suggest the club should stop White middle class males from joining and encourage more Rastafarian, lesbian, vegetarian, bikers against fox hunting, just to create a more multi cultured feel about the place.
 
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