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Can someone wrap a 9-iron round Harriet Harman's head?

Doon frae Troon said:
Be careful as there is a TV snoop on the boards at present looking for 'sensational golf related stories'.

You could find yourself on the news advocating violence against women politicians.
We would not like that would we.
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Christ, let's hope they do not look at the thread about women joining Muirfield as they will come away with the false impression that a lot of golfers are sexist pigs....;)
 
I will happily go on live television and say the same thing. It would be almost as funny as the Martha Burk's protest outside Augusta where someone held a sign up saying "Iron my shirt bitch".
 
Hacker Khan said:
If you are a politician then you have to do self promotion. It is one of the few jobs in which you are elected by the great British public. Who can be caring, erudite, intelligent, bigoted, racist, sexist and many more in between. And that's just this Forum, be dum tish.....

So as a large part of their working existence depends on them appealing to the public and being popular, then of course they will engage in self promotion. It's a bit naive not expecting them to.

I am not saying they are the best out there, but we, the great British public, have put them in that position. So we only have ourselves to blame. And show me someone who is not doing their job for financial enhancement? As mentioned in another thread, there are a lot of politicians out there doing a lot of hard work who in my opinion are underpaid compared to other jobs, so you do not join politics to become rich.
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^^^^This
 
Sorry, but the woman is an idiot. I had to deal with the fall out from implementing The Equalities Act at our club, introduced by Mrs. Harman. It caused a lot of ill feeling at a previously very friendly and happy club and the result was the lady members (the ones Mrs. Harman was trying to protect) ended up paying more and getting less. None of our members wanted this, including the men, but we had to comply with the law. The act that she introduced allowed for single sex clubs and organisations and yet now she is calling for male only clubs to be banned. I notice she makes no reference to female only clubs and organisations. What she really wants is false equality that makes her look good. She conveniently disregards any thoughts of equality when promoting single sex PPC short lists. Well, here's an idea. Why don't we just have the best person for the job, regardless of sex, colour, creed, religion? I will tell you why. Because people like Mrs. Harman would be out of a job at the next election.
 
Sweep said:
Sorry, but the woman is an idiot. I had to deal with the fall out from implementing The Equalities Act at our club, introduced by Mrs. Harman. It caused a lot of ill feeling at a previously very friendly and happy club and the result was the lady members (the ones Mrs. Harman was trying to protect) ended up paying more and getting less. None of our members wanted this, including the men, but we had to comply with the law. The act that she introduced allowed for single sex clubs and organisations and yet now she is calling for male only clubs to be banned. I notice she makes no reference to female only clubs and organisations. What she really wants is false equality that makes her look good. She conveniently disregards any thoughts of equality when promoting single sex PPC short lists. Well, here's an idea. Why don't we just have the best person for the job, regardless of sex, colour, creed, religion? I will tell you why. Because people like Mrs. Harman would be out of a job at the next election.
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This is a genuine question because this point within your bluster intrigues me. Can you be more specific about this? In what way did gaining equality make it worse for your lady members?
 
FairwayDodger said:
This is a genuine question because this point within your bluster intrigues me. Can you be more specific about this? In what way did gaining equality make it worse for your lady members?
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I can't speak for Sweep but, at my Club, the ladies paid about £100 a year less for a 7 day membership. They had ladies comps, generally when they wanted them (in the mid week) and didn't play on Sunday mornings before 11am so that it would allow the course to be closed for men's comps.

We then had to charge the ladies an equal subscription to the 7 day mens rate and ladies were able to take some slots during mens comps. So far, I have never seen any ladies take a slot as they seem to actually like the way things were. Now, I do understand that some new lady members may join one day and wish to play early on Sunday but the effect so far is that all the ladies now pay more for no discernible benefit
 
chrisd said:
I can't speak for Sweep but, at my Club, the ladies paid about £100 a year less for a 7 day membership. They had ladies comps, generally when they wanted them (in the mid week) and didn't play on Sunday mornings before 11am so that it would allow the course to be closed for men's comps.

We then had to charge the ladies an equal subscription to the 7 day mens rate and ladies were able to take some slots during mens comps. So far, I have never seen any ladies take a slot as they seem to actually like the way things were. Now, I do understand that some new lady members may join one day and wish to play early on Sunday but the effect so far is that all the ladies now pay more for no discernible benefit
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It's all about weekend access so, IMO, they're much better off now even if due to their current demography they don't take it up. And equality cuts both ways so of course they should pay the same.

Most younger women now work, if "golf" wants to attract them they must have the same opportunity to play as their male contemporaries. Equality should not be based just on what suits the older ladies who tend to be golf club members.
 
Do many clubs host women's county matches and open meetings at the weekend or is that a bridge too far?

Well said Dodger the ladies clubs in this area are generally run by 'ladies who lunch' with an average age of 70.
They need to wake up and smell the coffee.
 
Truth is that comments such as those made about Harriet Harman are simply a reflection of the thoughts of that unfortuntely large sector of the pubic whose opinions are formed by the exaggerations and headlines of the press - especially the 'red-tops' and Daily 'Squeal'. The opinions are mostly not really based upon knowledge or fact - but hey - why let that get in the way. From where I sit most of what I read or hear HH say is reasonably thought out (though I may not agree with it) - which is more than can be said for most of the opinions expressed about her - or indeed those expressed about any MP.

Funny thing is you don't often read that much about how the excellently researched, formed and intelligent arguments made by the right hon member for Little Piddle in respect of Squaddling. And why? It's not that theren't any MPs of this sort about (though there will no doubt be many who disagree on even that assertion of mine) - it's just that it doesn't fit with the agenda the 'red-top' press has for MPs. If you try and ensure that the reputation of MPs stays in the gutter then for instance it is a lot easier to express reactionary views that 'reflect public opinion' and demand 'referendums' or 'free votes' on this that and the other.

But hey - if you want to base your political and other arguements upon the opinions and headlines of the Red Tops - feel free - but don't pretend to be informed.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
Do many clubs host women's county matches and open meetings at the weekend or is that a bridge too far?

Well said Dodger the ladies clubs in this area are generally run by 'ladies who lunch' with an average age of 70.
They need to wake up and smell the coffee.
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Good point DFT. I'm a county rep and ALL of our meets including county championship are midweek. I don't know if the same applies for the male county meets. The best golfer in our county could be a teacher (lots of lady golfers seem to be teachers) but we'll not find out because she can never play the county champs.

As for opens, don't get me started, our men's open is at a weekend while the ladies is midweek.... And a greensomes! :mmm:
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Truth is that comments such as those made about Harriet Harman are simply a reflection of the thoughts of that unfortuntely large sector of the pubic whose opinions are formed by the exaggerations and headlines of the press - especially the 'red-tops' and Daily 'Squeal'. The opinions are mostly not really based upon knowledge or fact - but hey - why let that get in the way. From where I sit most of what I read or hear HH say is reasonably thought out (though I may not agree with it) - which is more than can be said for most of the opinions expressed about her - or indeed those expressed about any MP.

Funny thing is you don't often read that much about how the excellently researched, formed and intelligent arguments made by the right hon member for Little Piddle in respect of Squaddling. And why? It's not that theren't any MPs of this sort about (though there will no doubt be many who disagree on even that assertion of mine) - it's just that it doesn't fit with the agenda the 'red-top' press has for MPs. If you try and ensure that the reputation of MPs stays in the gutter then for instance it is a lot easier to express reactionary views that 'reflect public opinion' and demand 'referendums' or 'free votes' on this that and the other.

But hey - if you want to base your political and other arguements upon the opinions and headlines of the Red Tops - feel free - but don't pretend to be informed.
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Good post SILH! :thup:
 
FairwayDodger said:
This is a genuine question because this point within your bluster intrigues me. Can you be more specific about this? In what way did gaining equality make it worse for your lady members?
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I prefer to think of it as a post, rather than a bluster:) It is quite a detailed situation that may be too long to go into here, however the ladies wanted to keep their competition day. I don't blame them. I went to help in a comp last week and 80 golfers with all day to play was like millionaires golf. Brilliant. The vast majority of ladies had no interest and did not want to play on men's comp day. The result was we had to introduce a 6 day membership that we didn't have previously. In the interests of equality, we had to offer 6 day to all members and a lot of men took it up. The end result was 6 day membership costing £150 more than the old ladies subscription and we just managed to balance the books. It could easily have gone the other way. So the ladies pay £150 more and get less. Under the old system, anyone could play after the comps. Now, the 6 day members can't play on Saturday at all. Under equalities, we have to give equal access to the course to all members whose membership allows them to play on that day. Thankfully, all men stay away on ladies comp day, but we can't make them. They could play "in and amongst" if they wished. We have a few 7 day members (ladies and men) who do play "in and amongst" on men's comp day, but it has little effect. Eventually, we manged to compromise to a reasonable system that allows for comp days to be altered as the ladies membership profile alters and newer or younger ladies join who will want to compete at weekend.
 
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SwingsitlikeHogan said:
But hey - if you want to base your political and other arguements upon the opinions and headlines of the Red Tops - feel free - but don't pretend to be informed.
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I don't read the red tops and I am informed, as I think I have demonstrated. It seems that a lot of people on this forum who don't agree with another's opinion can only believe that people disagree with them because of the evil press. The Daily Mail is usually the prime suspect. The truth is that some do have opinions opposite to yours, they are valid and they are very likely not influenced by some Fleet Street rag. I, for one, have not read a paper in decades.
 
Sweep said:
I don't read the red tops and I am informed, as I think I have demonstrated. It seems that a lot of people on this forum who don't agree with another's opinion can only believe that people disagree with them because of the evil press. The Daily Mail is usually the prime suspect. The truth is that some do have opinions opposite to yours, they are valid and they are very likely not influenced by some Fleet Street rag. I, for one, have not read a paper in decades.
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Yet you are privy to the innermost thinkings and thoughts of HH to form strong opinions on and to be able to make 'sweeping' (sorry) and damning statements about HH as you do. You are not alone and in good and bad company. And I might not agree with some or indeed many of the things HH says - but further than that I don't feel sufficiently informed to go.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Yet you are privy to the innermost thinkings and thoughts of HH to form strong opinions on and to be able to make 'sweeping' (sorry) and damning statements about HH as you do. You are not alone and in good and bad company. And I might not agree with some or indeed many of the things HH says - but further than that I don't feel sufficiently informed to go.
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I don't intimately know any politicians (thankfully!) and I am certainly not privy to their innermost anything. But this does not and should not stop me from having an opinion on their policies, which are matters of public knowledge. Was there was anything in my original post (damning statements) that was wrong? She was the architect of the Equalities Act that allowed single sex clubs. She is now saying that male only clubs should be outlawed. She does promote single sex PPC short lists. If we are not allowed an opinion on politicians publically made policies, why are we allowed to vote? It's all part of living in a free country. As the old saying goes, I may not agree with your opinion, but I will fight to death to maintain your right to express it.
 
FairwayDodger said:
It's all about weekend access so, IMO, they're much better off now even if due to their current demography they don't take it up. And equality cuts both ways so of course they should pay the same.

Most younger women now work, if "golf" wants to attract them they must have the same opportunity to play as their male contemporaries. Equality should not be based just on what suits the older ladies who tend to be golf club members.
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I don't disagree with what you say at all. If in the future the course is frequented equally by lady members as well as the men, and we all can accommodate each other playing requirements, then I am wholly for that. The problem for the current crop of lady members is that they are paying a fair chunk more for no extra benefit and for privileges that they neither asked for nor wanted.

I did say, and accept that things may change and we certainly had one lady player who, a few years ago, wanted to play early on Sundays and it was impossible at the time to allow her to do so.
 
I am all for equality in life, even for the Welsh but Harriet Har-person as Private Eye likes to call her, does seem to bend the rules when it suits her. There are times when you have to use common sense (small female wheelchair user probably not going to get a job as an active fire-fighter) but HH picks and chooses when to apply the rules.
 
Is it not a poor reflection on the goal of equality in Golf Clubs that such things as 'Ladies Sections' exist at all. True equality can only be achieved by full integration whereby lady members play in the same competitions, integrate in the same committees and play in the same competitions as Men. Why is there a need for a separate Ladies Day, there is no such thing as Men's Day, only competitions and events that Ladies have decided not to take part in.
I can just about see that Mixed Golf Comps are OK but thats about all. A local club had a Lady club Captain last year, now that was a step forward for equality.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Truth is that comments such as those made about Harriet Harman are simply a reflection of the thoughts of that unfortuntely large sector of the pubic whose opinions are formed by the exaggerations and headlines of the press - especially the 'red-tops' and Daily 'Squeal'. The opinions are mostly not really based upon knowledge or fact - but hey - why let that get in the way.

But hey - if you want to base your political and other arguements upon the opinions and headlines of the Red Tops - feel free - but don't pretend to be informed.
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What part of my comments about Harriet Harman are "formed by the exaggerations and headlines of the press" or are not informed? She has publicly stated that Muirfield should be made to accept women members, has supported all women shortlists for elections and has also spoken at "Labour's Women's Conference"

http://www.labour.org.uk/harriet-harmans-speech-to-labours-womens-conference

In my book this makes her a hypocrite regardless of what the "red tops" say. I happen to agree with her that there is no place in a modern society for any organisation that rejects 50% of the population because they have a uterus but I also think that rejecting 50% of the population for an election because they have a penis is equally wrong.
 
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