Can clubs discriminate over Joining Fees?

[Jacko_G]

So you understand then why some clubs have chosen to have lower fees for women?

Again nope!

 

[Grant85]

I am in favour of anything that get's more women involved in the sport. I don't think membership or joining fee discounts alone are going to cut it, though. In Germany, we have a very high ratio of female players and I never heard of any club charging lower rates for women. Some clubs have family rates, where your partner and your children pay less when they join if you are already a full paying member, but that is usually just a small discount and it is not gender specific. Like my mom pays 100 € less than my dad, but it could just as well be the other way round, since they both joined the club at the same time.

I still think it is mostly a cultural thing. In the UK, golf traditionally is a sport men play to get away from home for a few hours, and even if the wife plays as well, she usually does so with other ladies. In Germany, it is a sport that partners and families enjoy together. There are exceptions on both sides, of course, we have all male and all female comps during the week as well, but especially in he age group of players under 50, the general sentiment seems to be that golf is way more fun in a mixed group. And the female players here get every bit as equipment crazy, competetive and passionate as their male counterparts. No membership discounts needed.

I agree about the cultural thing in the UK. Perhaps it will change, but I wouldn't say there are really signs of it changing at present.

Certainly the average golf club in the UK would be grateful of the subs from another dozen or so woman golfers.

 

[need_my_wedge]

My club has this policy.
Male member pays £1265 joining fee
Female member £0 joining fee.
Have always thought that’s wrong.
If anybody wants to play they should pay the going rate regardless of who they are.

We also have discounts for 30 + yr olds to entice younger men to the club but they still pay a JF.

Having just finished paying the wife's joining fee, I can confirm that our club has or had the same joining fee for women as it does for men.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

One argument that does not hold water is that a low joining fee for women, helps women get into golf (in more recent times). The reason is that the kind of clubs this is normally relevant to are not really 'starting' clubs in the main supply chain of golf memberships, they tend to be the more expensive or posher clubs, so perhaps would be when you change golf clubs after you have played.

I think it helps to just get lady members into that club and increase numbers into the ladies section of that club.

We do need to get more women into golf, the numbers playing in the UK are really low but looking at more the take up of golf or trying golf is far better, so offering starter courses or women who have played sports or getting children/parents into golf is a much better focus to achieve it than joining fees at posher clubs imho.

We have come across this lady pays no joining fee and agree that the club can do what it likes subject to members approval, not saying I really agree with it tho. Personally when we had it happen to us, we looked at it along the lines of my wife and I were paying half the joining fee each, sort of 2 for 1 offer.

 

[Jacko_G]

Having just finished paying the wife's joining fee, I can confirm that our club has or had the same joining fee for women as it does for men.

As it should be.

Equality should mean equality!

 

[Papas1982]

I can't believe that (male) members are still complaining about being discriminated at their golf clubs.

I've been to plenty of golf courses where ladies changing rooms are in different parts of the clubhouse as a last thought. If in time membership numbers are comparable and women still get it free, i could understand. Atm the discount may well be seen as apology for how women were treated in the past. I'd say their participation or lack of will be due to a few things. Interest of course, maybe less women are interested, but also the fact that they still think it's an environment where they would be unwelcome.

 

[clubchamp98]

What has living longer got to do with the ability to pay?

I was answering the average wage for women ,what’s that got to do with ability to pay.
If you can’t afford to join a private club you don’t join.
Let’s be honest here there are a lot of male golfers who don’t join golf clubs because the joining fee makes it out of their reach .
So having it free for women is just wrong in a equal society.(allegedly)!,!

 

[clubchamp98]

By that same token it could be argued why should a retired 65 year old millionaire get their membership cheaper than me. Bit of an irrelevant point bringing millionaires into the equation unless you're going to do it across the full spectrum.

Back to the OP, Whilst I understand the desire to bring in more ladies to the game and if they want to make the membership cheaper based on having a drive to increase the numbers then that's understandable as they could offer its as introductory rates of say first year at X amount then increases year on year until it hits the same amount as men, that to me would be fair and inline with how many clubs now do similar age related offers. The issue though of saying men should pay a joining fee and ladies shouldn't I don't find fair at all, I've previously said in many threads I don't agree with joining fees but I won't get into that as it goes off in all tangents.

I agree with you.
I have always said if you want to play you pay the going rate regardless of who you are.
Kids only exception.

 

[patricks148]

As it should be.

Equality should mean equality!

wonder if it would be ok the other way round.... i doubt it

 

[clubchamp98]

wonder if it would be ok the other way round.... i doubt it

Let’s try that see how it goes.
Any club got the bottle ,I dought it.

 

[doublebogey7]

I was answering the average wage for women ,what’s that got to do with ability to pay.

If you go back on my replies to this thread you would see that I was replying to IanM assertion that lower fee's for those in the teens and twenty's were ok as they are related to the ability to pay. Both mine and IanM point relate to averages, but of course, the real world doesn't work like that.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

As it should be.

Equality should mean equality!

Always makes me laugh when people say this kind of stuff to Golf, its a membership and the members can do whatever they like. Not saying I agree again but it really is more in favour of men in golf, than women, if you think otherwise then you need to really open your eyes and see it from a ladies view.

For example ever been a member of a golf club were the mens only comp is on a Saturday and takes all the daylight 18 hole tee times, so basically a working lady or someone who doesn't wish to play in comps aren't allowed to play on that day. We have just given notice to one of the clubs we are members at for this reason, as me/wife are effectively 1 day members at the weekend times. There are plenty of golf clubs like that that have men only comps on Saturday or sunday and were is the equality in that, oh some help and have ladies Tuesday morning to play in a comp,, very equal/useful

Therefore if people truly want equality to be equal then you should be fighting for both sides and for all members and all facilities(like papas1982 gives as an example).

 

[clubchamp98]

If you go back on my replies to this thread you would see that I was replying to IanM assertion that lower fee's for those in the teens and twenty's were ok as they are related to the ability to pay. Both mine and IanM point relate to averages, but of course, the real world doesn't work like that.

All averages mean is some earn more than others .
Think them sort of rules were ok when Churchill was PM but in the modern world money talks .
You don’t see many kids driving old bangers
They all have £1000 iPhones.
The world has changed and I am ok with lower fees for younger members .
But a 40yr old woman should not pay less than a 40yr old man.
That’s not equality no matter how anyone dresses it up.

 

[clubchamp98]

Always makes me laugh when people say this kind of stuff to Golf, its a membership and the members can do whatever they like. Not saying I agree again but it really is more in favour of men in golf, than women, if you think otherwise then you need to really open your eyes and see it from a ladies view.

For example ever been a member of a golf club were the mens only comp is on a Saturday and takes all the daylight 18 hole tee times, so basically a working lady or someone who doesn't wish to play in comps aren't allowed to play on that day. We have just given notice to one of the clubs we are members at for this reason, as me/wife are effectively 1 day members at the weekend times. There are plenty of golf clubs like that that have men only comps on Saturday or sunday and were is the equality in that, oh some help and have ladies Tuesday morning to play in a comp,, very equal/useful

Therefore if people truly want equality to be equal then you should be fighting for both sides and for all members and all facilities(like papas1982 gives as an example).

Ladies play in our Saturday comps but still have Tuesday morning for those who don’t want to!
But they still pay no joining fee.
Our ladies voted to be full members and that’s what they are.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Ladies play in our Saturday comps but still have Tuesday morning for those who don’t want to!
But they still pay no joining fee.
Our ladies voted to be full members and that’s what they are.

If everything is equal in your club for all members, then why not bring it up at the AGM . Sadly many clubs are not like that, some even restrict the senior section to men only. Golf clubs are generally a bad example of equality whether its women, junior, younger players, non competition players and so on but the club will be voted/changed by the majority, so that is always going to be the case.

Maybe your club(ie. its members) have decided to try to increase the number of ladies in the ladies section, just like trying to increase younger players in the club with lower fees, the club is just trying to increase the number of 'x' players in a certain group.

 

[IanM]

On the same basis then you would accept that women should pay lower fee's than men as their average wage is lower.

I understand the point, but a what point do you start means testing purchases?

 

[Jacko_G]

Always makes me laugh when people say this kind of stuff to Golf, its a membership and the members can do whatever they like. Not saying I agree again but it really is more in favour of men in golf, than women, if you think otherwise then you need to really open your eyes and see it from a ladies view.

For example ever been a member of a golf club were the mens only comp is on a Saturday and takes all the daylight 18 hole tee times, so basically a working lady or someone who doesn't wish to play in comps aren't allowed to play on that day. We have just given notice to one of the clubs we are members at for this reason, as me/wife are effectively 1 day members at the weekend times. There are plenty of golf clubs like that that have men only comps on Saturday or sunday and were is the equality in that, oh some help and have ladies Tuesday morning to play in a comp,, very equal/useful

Therefore if people truly want equality to be equal then you should be fighting for both sides and for all members and all facilities(like papas1982 gives as an example).

The answer to your rant is no. Every club I have played at has specific slots for ladies tee times during a Saturday "men's competition"

I've been a member when a female has been captain of the club. I have seen females serve and do a great job on the committee. All fantastic and I applaud that. I applaud the fact that the GC has taken that step and the fact that people are prepared to give up their time to help the clubs.

Anyway back onto your rant about inequality in medals to a degree you are right. I'm a shift worker. Yet funnily enough I have never been told I can play for my handicap and have a slot with the women's midweek competition.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Been injured more playing hockey than any other sport. IT's mental giving a bunch of unfit slobs like me a stick and asking us to hit a ball at each other.

Now, he may just have a point.

BTW Didnt the English women's Hockey team win the world cup or Olympics?

 

[doublebogey7]

All averages mean is some earn more than others .
Think them sort of rules were ok when Churchill was PM but in the modern world money talks .
You don’t see many kids driving old bangers
They all have £1000 iPhones.
The world has changed and I am ok with lower fees for younger members .
But a 40yr old woman should not pay less than a 40yr old man.
That’s not equality no matter how anyone dresses it up.

So you're ok with age discrimination but not sex discrimination. Accept that as a view but you yourself have explained why it is a perverse one.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

The answer to your rant is no. Every club I have played at has specific slots for ladies tee times during a Saturday "men's competition"

I've been a member when a female has been captain of the club. I have seen females serve and do a great job on the committee. All fantastic and I applaud that. I applaud the fact that the GC has taken that step and the fact that people are prepared to give up their time to help the clubs.

Anyway back onto your rant about inequality in medals to a degree you are right. I'm a shift worker. Yet funnily enough I have never been told I can play for my handicap and have a slot with the women's midweek competition.

Is this what you call equality sounds like segregation if I read it right. Equality should mean any tee time is available to any member.

Thought I would mention I didn't post a rant, so sorry if it read like that, was just posting what happens at most clubs I have seen, didn't think it was an aggressive or a rant style post

Anyway I am out of this subject as not really adding anything to the OP subject matter and don't wish to be seen as 'ranting' and wish you well, have a good day.