Britain’s longest serving prisoner

Arthur Wedge said:
Nothing about “fantasy of karma”

Lets not twist things
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You stated that, "karma happens".

Violence inflicted on those who have committed violence must be adding more bad karma into the world.
Is this not a bad thing for those who believe in karma?

I believe the notion of karma is nonsense.
 
Voyager EMH said:
You stated that, "karma happens".

Violence inflicted on those who have committed violence must be adding more bad karma into the world.
Is this not a bad thing for those who believe in karma?

I believe the notion of karma is nonsense.
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Karma does happen - been plenty of examples over the centuries

there will always be people that have lost their rights to walk the earth and at times the world sorts that out
 
Tashyboy said:
My problem is that some prisoners are not for rehabilitation. The whole system is set up for rehabilitation but some prisoners are just not interested.
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Great timing, Tash. I say that because, only yesterday afternoon, I saw on my local police social media page that a woman in her late 40’s had been arrested. Pretty minor stuff, and in no way deserving of a firing squad, but it illustrates your point perfectly. She was my first prisoner way back in 1993. Not changed a jot in the intervening 32 years.

Tashyboy said:
Furthermore, this is another thread in which the death sentence will be discussed which leads to the blocking of this thread as some folk will just go on and on. Sometimes you have to agree to disagree.
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Well said. And I’ll endorse it, folks. It’s an emotive subject, but it’s still possible to debate it without falling out.
 
Arthur Wedge said:
Not confusing anything 👍
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The belief in karma, as I understand it,
Good deeds with good intent increases good karma in the world.
Bad deeds with bad intent increases bad karma in the world.

This is compatible with a system of humane justice.

Retribution of violence upon those who commit violent acts is a bad deed with bad intent.
This is not compatible with a belief in the creation of a world with more good karma in it.
It will increase bad karma in the world, for those who believe in karma.

This is where I think you are confusing a violent act of retribution as being karma happening.
It could be karma happening, but only in a bad way - increasing bad karma - which makes the world worse.
 
Voyager EMH said:
The belief in karma, as I understand it,
Good deeds with good intent increases good karma in the world.
Bad deeds with bad intent increases bad karma in the world.

This is compatible with a system of humane justice.

Retribution of violence upon those who commit violent acts is a bad deed with bad intent.
This is not compatible with a belief in the creation of a world with more good karma in it.
It will increase bad karma in the world, for those who believe in karma.

This is where I think you are confusing a violent act of retribution as being karma happening.
It could be karma happening, but only in a bad way - increasing bad karma - which makes the world worse.
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Sorry but it’s not that deep at the end of the day
 
Too many shades of grey here, there are cases that are just straight forward and you can make them complex by digging too deep .. bad is bad, but the OP showed a different story and motivation. Religious or political belief being a motivator.. not sure myself I would argue bad is bad that’s an excuse, unless there some provocation that explains.
I do believe our legal system has lost its sense of direction in that we have clear cut cases, they choose to pursue.. which costs. Or they argue very tenuous points that are just someone’s word against another ..
 
Voyager EMH said:
It is an extremely deep and profound topic of our human existence.
It is worthy of much consideration and discussion.
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It’s far from that for many

For some it’s very simple without having to dig too deep and make things too complicated

We do have a justice system and there are punishments within that system

There are also many who imo feel that their are crimes that are that evil there is no punishment

And for those people that are beyond that level of evil many people think they don’t deserve to be still walking the earth even if in confinement

Now I’m not a fan of capital punishment but if something did happen to those evil people then many wouldn’t bat an eyelid
 
harpo_72 said:
Too many shades of grey here, there are cases that are just straight forward and you can make them complex by digging too deep .. bad is bad, but the OP showed a different story and motivation. Religious or political belief being a motivator.. not sure myself I would argue bad is bad that’s an excuse, unless there some provocation that explains.
I do believe our legal system has lost its sense of direction in that we have clear cut cases, they choose to pursue.. which costs. Or they argue very tenuous points that are just someone’s word against another ..
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This. The legal system is broken and not helped but glut of do gooders wanting the prisoners human right, mental health etc all served and that all prisoners are suitable for rehabilitation.
 
Arthur Wedge said:
It’s far from that for many

For some it’s very simple without having to dig too deep and make things too complicated

We do have a justice system and there are punishments within that system

There are also many who imo feel that their are crimes that are that evil there is no punishment

And for those people that are beyond that level of evil many people think they don’t deserve to be still walking the earth even if in confinement

Now I’m not a fan of capital punishment but if something did happen to those evil people then many wouldn’t bat an eyelid
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There are punishments for all crimes.
In our civilised society the punishment is loss of liberty.
This is simple and uncomplicated.

No one should inflict violence as a form of punishment. This is also very simple and complicated.

No one should advocate for violence as punishment or retribution. This is not compatible with a civilised society. Very simple and uncomplicated.
 
Voyager EMH said:
There are punishments for all crimes.
In our civilised society the punishment is loss of liberty.
This is simple and uncomplicated.

No one should inflict violence as a form of punishment. This is also very simple and complicated.

No one should advocate for violence as punishment or retribution. This is not compatible with a civilised society. Very simple and uncomplicated.
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We all know what punishments are

What the point is there are many who don’t think they are appropriate punishment for some of the most evil crimes

There are many who imo believe that Alex Rudakubana shouldn’t be just inside a prison for what he did

He took the life’s of three little girls - makes many sick to the stomach and if something did happen to him I don’t expect there will be a single person who would care
 
HomerJSimpson said:
By vindicating something to happen to a prisoner doesn't that then drag society down to the same crude level as the crime committed. We need to show we deal with reprehensible crimes in a refined and educated way and that we have rules and sentences to be adhered to
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We do have a problem here there will possibly be a reprisal. But this is because there is opportunity.. those opportunities should not be there, and the reason they are there is because they don’t make the prisoners work .. I think hard labour is an acceptable solution no infringement on human rights just make them busy get them tired ..
 
HomerJSimpson said:
By vindicating something to happen to a prisoner doesn't that then drag society down to the same crude level as the crime committed. We need to show we deal with reprehensible crimes in a refined and educated way and that we have rules and sentences to be adhered to
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Precisely why we the public don't get a say on the matter. We have judges to decide. If it was up to the general public you would have on one side more prison space because a few of them would die a year but on the flip side prisons would be fully than ever because people think judges are "too soft" so everyone would be on 10 year stretches for cheating their handicap.
 
harpo_72 said:
We do have a problem here there will possibly be a reprisal. But this is because there is opportunity.. those opportunities should not be there, and the reason they are there is because they don’t make the prisoners work .. I think hard labour is an acceptable solution no infringement on human rights just make them busy get them tired ..
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Without going into a rabbit hole of right and wrong is there not an argument that having prisoners on hard labour it is creating more opportunities for reprisals against certain prisoners and the risk towards staff
 
harpo_72 said:
We do have a problem here there will possibly be a reprisal. But this is because there is opportunity.. those opportunities should not be there, and the reason they are there is because they don’t make the prisoners work .. I think hard labour is an acceptable solution no infringement on human rights just make them busy get them tired ..
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They do tho, have jobs in prison however they have to be deemed safe to do those jobs
 
harpo_72 said:
We do have a problem here there will possibly be a reprisal. But this is because there is opportunity.. those opportunities should not be there, and the reason they are there is because they don’t make the prisoners work .. I think hard labour is an acceptable solution no infringement on human rights just make them busy get them tired ..
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Shoold be the very basic for some

Food and water , inside a cell with nothing but books , outside walk for an hour

And then some sort of hard labour for an hour

No interactions with anyone inside or outside - make their life inside as awful ad humanly possible
 
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