Brexit Two Months On

[hors limite]

No one who speaks with a modicum of sense has suggested that we stop immigration, the issue for people was controlling it. While members of the EU we have no control, it's not just about plumbers, doctors and engineers, the issue for many is the unfettered open border where limitless people with or without skills have a right to reside in the UK and with the same benefits as citizens. I think we all know this was the issue but many seem to want to ignore it. If the EU would have offered Cameron a modicum of control rather than a slap in the face then Brexit would have failed. Thinking about it, picking fruit is not a new thing, our farmers have picked their fruit for time immemorial, how did they manage in the past? I cant remember all these people from the EU over here.

Farmers will still be able to employ people from abroad to work in their fields, the only difference would be is that they would need a work visa giving them a temporary right of residence.

How, pray, will this temporary work visa system be policed? For example,the Border Agency has been singularly unsuccessful in rounding up and deporting failed asylum seekers. Why should we expect any greater efficiency when it comes to temporary workers who choose not to return home?

 

[Hobbit]

How, pray, will this temporary work visa system be policed? For example,the Border Agency has been singularly unsuccessful in rounding up and deporting failed asylum seekers. Why should we expect any greater efficiency when it comes to temporary workers who choose not to return home?

Probably the same way it works now for non-EU workers. There is a system in place already. I've employed several non-EU workers. They need to show they have a job to come to, and that process includes the employer confirming there is a job for them. Every 2 years they have to reapply for the work visa.

There are two reasons it fails, an unscrupulous employer who takes workers in under the black economy, and the Home Office not processing and deporting people quick enough once they've lost their job/right to work.

 

[SocketRocket]

How, pray, will this temporary work visa system be policed? For example,the Border Agency has been singularly unsuccessful in rounding up and deporting failed asylum seekers. Why should we expect any greater efficiency when it comes to temporary workers who choose not to return home?

It's nothing new and is used all around the World by most countries. The USA has a Working Visa system and so does the UK for Non EU people. Like any system it will have it's problems but that's not a reason to dismiss it as unworkable, every visa holder does not abuse it. Employers have to prove the holder has a valid job and inform the Agency if the person leaves.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I am never surprised at your anti English Hate Crime.

Just reporting the facts.
Like the other pro Brexiters on here you are doing a body swerve on that 'awkward' question.

 

[Blue in Munich]

No one properly sold the benefits of Remain. Everything was about fear.

In fairness, neither side properly sold the potential benefits of either option, they were both as bad as each other in that respect.

 

[SocketRocket]

I am really struggling to understand where we are supposed to be heading with the Brexit project. The impact on immigration when you've counted in all the exceptions that are being talked about is looking to be modest. Conversely, the adverse economic impact seems to be frighteningly difficult to quantify.
The fall in the pound might have been good for exporters if we had the manufacturing base of a Germany. As we haven't it isn't as it will drive up the cost of imports leading to inflation and an erosion of real incomes which will impact the poorest. I read that one of the biggest and most successful industries is the financial sector and the impact of Brexit in this area seems only to threaten a negative impact. Returning to the exports of goods, we have done very well in attracting inward investment from especially the Japanese. The Japanese government has already warned of their concerns and Nissan has halted further investment.
I have heard the argument that the EU will not want to apply tariffs to Uk goods as they will fear a similar treatment of their exports. I hope that the Brexit camp is right. However, the downside to the UK economy appears to huge compared to the upside of a smallish reduction in immigration and that nebulous recapturing of"sovereignty".
I would like to see a series of opinion polls between now and the Article 50 deadline. There were false fears and arguments peddled by both sides leading up to the vote.It would be foolish, whether through a misplaced sense of pride or through a narrow political self interest, to rule out any possibility of revisiting the question if it emerged that there had been a substantial change of heart.

Working down your comments:
We are supposed to be heading towards becoming an independent country that creates it's own laws, controls it's own borders, trades and makes trade arrangements with anyone in the world who wants to.

Controlling immigration isn't as simple as reducing it or stopping it. It's about deciding who and in what numbers you want to work and live in your country then creating a fair system for anyone in the world who wishes to apply.

The current fall in the exchange rate has ups and downs but will settle down eventually. Some gain and some lose and no doubt the speculators will thrive on the current uncertainty and the fact that the pound has been overvalued for some time and needed an adjustment will bring a level of reality to the markets and inflation levels.

The Government has been working in the background to reassure the Japanese car manufacturers and there are reports emerging that some form of guarantee has been given to them to protect against any tariffs that the EU may apply.

Regarding the rest of your comments I would put it that Brexit is a reality and it will happen. There will be bumps and hurdles to jump but I am confident we will be a better country at the end of the process. It will be up to ourselves to make it a success or failure and the sooner those that lost the vote get over it, face up to reality and put their backs into making a country we can all be proud to live in the sooner it will happen.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Good article in The Times today by Matthew Paris. To quote him,

we are heading for a national humiliation, nobodies in charge and nobody knows what to do. This Brexit thing is out of control.

And he has a fair point, the government are doing their best to look like it is all under control, but deep down you know they aren't. TMay won't consult with parliament on her plans because basically she didn't have any. Yes I am sure the usual suspects will come up with their displacement activities, blaming the bank of England for for talking down the economy or people who wanted to stay as talking down the UK or whoever they blame this week. But truth is no one knows what they are doing, and I am sure in their heart of hearts any politician with the interests of the UK at heart instead of forwarding their own careers knows that as well.

 

[USER1999]

Good article in The Times today by Matthew Paris. To quote him,

we are heading for a national humiliation, nobodies in charge and nobody knows what to do. This Brexit thing is out of control.

And he has a fair point, the government are doing their best to look like it is all under control, but deep down you know they aren't. TMay won't consult with parliament on her plans because basically she didn't have any. Yes I am sure the usual suspects will come up with their displacement activities, blaming the bank of England for for talking down the economy or people who wanted to stay as talking down the UK or whoever they blame this week. But truth is no one knows what they are doing, and I am sure in their heart of hearts any politician with the interests of the UK at heart instead of forwarding their own careers knows that as well.

This is only a good article because it is what you think too.

 

[USER1999]

I don't really understand how immigration will be changed if we exit. We always had our border controls and those EU migrants are skilled labour so where is the difference ? Should we exit the commonwealth as well, we get a shed load of them over .....? Oh that might not be PC.

No, they are not skilled. Every day I drive past builders merchants with 40 to 50 EU eastern Europeans lurking waiting for cheap jobs in the building trade. £40 a day will get you a labourer. It under cuts UK labour, they don't pay tax, national insurance, they use the NHS, they drive rubbish cars with no insurance, very badly, and rent out rooms that sleep 20, messing up the renting market, and annoying people who have money invested in their own homes, who don't want to live next to a bunch of unaccountable thugs.

Controlling immigration is about this, not nurses, doctors, financial bods. It's about people who come here without a recognised job to do.

 

[harpo_72]

No, they are not skilled. Every day I drive past builders merchants with 40 to 50 EU eastern Europeans lurking waiting for cheap jobs in the building trade. £40 a day will get you a labourer. It under cuts UK labour, they don't pay tax, national insurance, they use the NHS, they drive rubbish cars with no insurance, very badly, and rent out rooms that sleep 20, messing up the renting market, and annoying people who have money invested in their own homes, who don't want to live next to a bunch of unaccountable thugs.

Controlling immigration is about this, not nurses, doctors, financial bods. It's about people who come here without a recognised job to do.

If you think it's illegal talk to the police or investigate other avenues.... if you are this certain of what your seeing act upon it.

 

[USER1999]

If you think it's illegal talk to the police or investigate other avenues.... if you are this certain of what your seeing act upon it.

I have no idea if its illegal, but do you think anyone cares? It's North London, no one gives a stuff. It's a new version of the wild west.

 

[harpo_72]

I have no idea if its illegal, but do you think anyone cares? It's North London, no one gives a stuff. It's a new version of the wild west.

Question is why will it change when we leave? There will be a demand and they will get in - they may not be Eastern Europeans, but it will happen all the same.

 

[Deleted member 1418]

I have no idea if its illegal, but do you think anyone cares? It's North London, no one gives a stuff. It's a new version of the wild west.

Also happening in our area.

 

[SocketRocket]

Question is why will it change when we leave? There will be a demand and they will get in - they may not be Eastern Europeans, but it will happen all the same.

There is an unlimited supply of unskilled labour in the EU and a great deal of it has come to the UK. If you think immigrants are all skilled then you have no grasp on the reality.

 

[harpo_72]

There is an unlimited supply of unskilled labour in the EU and a great deal of it has come to the UK. If you think immigrants are all skilled then you have no grasp on the reality.

*Yawn * go and prove it .....

 

[Deleted member 15344]

There is an unlimited supply of unskilled labour in the EU and a great deal of it has come to the UK. If you think immigrants are all skilled then you have no grasp on the reality.

And there is a lot of unskilled immigrants from outside the EU that came into the country that will still come to the country regardless of us being in or out of the EU

There are also a lot of EU migrants unskilled but doing a lot of work that UK nationals believe is below them and would prefer to claim benefits

But everything all looks great right now - pound struggling and getting worse , business are suffering because of it , companies looking for warehouses and offices around Europe allowing them to move out of the UK - but it's all good at the moment

Right now UK wide we are in a mess of uncertainty - that may not bother yourself who it appears don't care about the future as long as "we have our sovereignty" but it seems it bothers a lot of people right now

 

[SocketRocket]

And there is a lot of unskilled immigrants from outside the EU that came into the country that will still come to the country regardless of us being in or out of the EU

There are also a lot of EU migrants unskilled but doing a lot of work that UK nationals believe is below them and would prefer to claim benefits

But everything all looks great right now - pound struggling and getting worse , business are suffering because of it , companies looking for warehouses and offices around Europe allowing them to move out of the UK - but it's all good at the moment

Right now UK wide we are in a mess of uncertainty - that may not bother yourself who it appears don't care about the future as long as "we have our sovereignty" but it seems it bothers a lot of people right now

Non EU immigrants are subject to a points based system where they must have skills required. The answer to UK people not prepared to do unskilled work is to stop their benefits, That's what happens in most other countries and has only become a problem here due to the previous policies of the left allowing the feckless to get away with it. How did we do these jobs before?

The rest of your comments are just exaggerated one sided rhetoric.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Non EU immigrants are subject to a points based system where they must have skills required. The answer to UK people not prepared to do unskilled work is to stop their benefits, That's what happens in most other countries and has only become a problem here due to the previous policies of the left allowing the feckless to get away with it. How did we do these jobs before?

The rest of your comments are just exaggerated one sided rhetoric.

Yet it's all happening right now , i know people whose businesses are suffering since the vote , I know people who have lost their jobs because of lost contracts from Europe and further a field because of the vote , travel companies are suffering because of the state of the pound compared to other currencies

Sorry but I don't think many see the same confident future for the UK that you do - a lot of people are realising the reality of the situation right now - each day goes by the uncertainty of the whole situation just drags on and on and that is affecting everyone right now - maybe you're retired now and don't work and don't see the affect of it all. I know people who do work in the car industry and they don't seem to agree with your rosey outcome for the Japanese manufacturers.

But of course it's always dismissed by yourself as just scaremongering - well I know Its affecting my family - just hope its doesn't affect yours as well one day

Where is all this.business from beyond Europe then ? When will these deals from far and wide come flooding in ?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....ards-decline-pound-fall-too-high-price-brexit

 

[harpo_72]

Non EU immigrants are subject to a points based system where they must have skills required. The answer to UK people not prepared to do unskilled work is to stop their benefits, That's what happens in most other countries and has only become a problem here due to the previous policies of the left allowing the feckless to get away with it. How did we do these jobs before?

The rest of your comments are just exaggerated one sided rhetoric.

they are if they come in legitimately... but guess what some of aren't and guess what that isn't Europe's fault that's the UK not protecting its borders properly.

I am always amazed when I hear stories about multiple claims on our benefits system, makes me wonder how the f@&k did they do it ? I can only conclude we are not very well prepared.

I think most people are of the opinion there is a large amount of English on benefits because those people think it's more cost affective ... but was Brexit about that? Also why have not the Tories with their massive majority passed and changes through parliament that would deal/ tackle with this ... must be feckless to.

Like I stated earlier *yawn* SR it's wearing thin now

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Excoriating critique by Matthew Parris of the performance of May and the three Brexiteers in today's Times. His conclusion? They haven't a scoobies about what to do.

Meanwhile north of the border Nicola S lays out the parameters of the soft Brexit the SNP require - as she said she would do after meeting with May the day after the EU referendum- knowing pretty much full well that May will fail to deliver against them. And Sturgeon can say to the Scottish electorate - 'well I tried'.

And in a marvellous move, TMay does not include the secretaries of state for NI, Wales and Scotland in her core Brexit team - providing further evidence - if that were needed - that Breakfast means Breakfast means Full English Breakfast - to be followed one suspects by a Dog's Dinner of a departure.

But of course this is all the fault of the Remoaners, the Remainiacs, of course it is - blame the powerless defeated for the failures of the clueless victors - nice one.