SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
So his form of compromise is that we accept his requirements but he doesn't accept ours.
Brexit - The negotiations.
- Thread starter spongebob59
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SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
It’s ‘his’ single market...He can ask for whatever he wants. We can decide whether we want it enough.
PNWokingham
Journeyman Pro
ah, so it is only a one way deal for us to enter their market, nothing about them entering ours?
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
Of course it is; SILH didn't want to leave so will support remaining by any method possible. He completely misses the point that it is precisely because of behaviour like this by Barnier that a number of Leave voters voted the way that they did.
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Indeed - it is a two-way street. They can decide whether or not they want access to our market, whether they want to accede to our requirements and demands.
But there is absolutely no point in us complaining about EU obstruction, intransigence or unreasonable demands. Because we knew what we were getting in to when we decided to leave, and then try an negotiate having pretty much the same access to the EU's single market as we had before we left. We knew. Or at least some of us knew. The rest of us were told. Many of us believed.
And some here really must get over this bizarre idea that some or many who voted to remain continue to hold on to hope that the UK won't leave. WE HAVE LEFT. Get over it. Most remain voters have.
chrisd
Major Champion
All us who voted to leave have remained happy since the day after the vote. WE KNOW WE'VE LEFT. Nothing to get over. Couldn't give a stuff whether Remainers have or not ?
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Well maybe some can stop yabbering on about remain voters still hoping the UK won't leave. When we already have...
chrisd
Major Champion
........ and maybe some who've prattled on for years about leave voters, and been insulting about them, could just wither away and realise that we know that we've already left cos we're not as stupid as you told us we were.
drdel
Tour Rookie
It does amuse me that Barnier talks as if a 'No Deal' is the end of relations between the EU and the UK and consequently that gives him/EU the right to demand a share of UK assets and control UK trade and Banking policies.
The UK has offered an arrangement based on fish stock levels that are periodically reviewed. But he says we must continue to the current systems to protect EU: the jobs that were largely taken from the North East and Scotland or be threatened with 'No Deal' - well that will keep the EU fishermen happy!
Trade in goods may/may not carry taxes, the flow may/may not reduce dependent upon competitiveness (either way).
Security data sharing will continue much as before as it does with many other Nations.
NATO will still exist.
Travel will still happen as it does around the world; perhaps with visas perhaps not. Minor delays possibly but with air travel at a reduced rate due to COVID 19 now is the best time for systems to be revised: if necessary.
Banking and investment will be OK; new/modified 'passporting' systems may be needed.
Bear in mind that the EU rules demand that negotiations are conducted in a mutually respectful manner
Its a repeat of the Greek debacle and the treatment of PM May. Even Putin can see the paper tiger that is Merkel's/EU threat over the 'poisoning'.
I anyone was in doubt over the 'result' they should have no qualms now.
The UK has offered an arrangement based on fish stock levels that are periodically reviewed. But he says we must continue to the current systems to protect EU: the jobs that were largely taken from the North East and Scotland or be threatened with 'No Deal' - well that will keep the EU fishermen happy!
Trade in goods may/may not carry taxes, the flow may/may not reduce dependent upon competitiveness (either way).
Security data sharing will continue much as before as it does with many other Nations.
NATO will still exist.
Travel will still happen as it does around the world; perhaps with visas perhaps not. Minor delays possibly but with air travel at a reduced rate due to COVID 19 now is the best time for systems to be revised: if necessary.
Banking and investment will be OK; new/modified 'passporting' systems may be needed.
Bear in mind that the EU rules demand that negotiations are conducted in a mutually respectful manner
Its a repeat of the Greek debacle and the treatment of PM May. Even Putin can see the paper tiger that is Merkel's/EU threat over the 'poisoning'.
I anyone was in doubt over the 'result' they should have no qualms now.
PNWokingham
Journeyman Pro
what utter bitter waffle. We left. We negotiate a free trade deal - infact we chose one of the options the EU offered. The EU backtrack on that and demand we have to be more aligned than other countries would ever agree to. They are being for more stubborn and intractrangible than we are - our red lines are the same as any other country in a trade negotiation - theirs are not!!!.
We are not asking for the same access as before, we are asking for a trade deal similar to Canada. Wake up and see the logic and stop jumping on the EU side
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
Maybe some just need to stop whinging about the EU and accept the situation we have put ourselves in...and if the EU choose to not agree with us a deal like Canada's, then that is their prerogative.
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
The irony of you lecturing others about whinging is simply mind blowing.
Think how much typing he's had to do.
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
From the guy with over 3 times as many posts as him!
???
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chrisd
Major Champion
We haven't "put ourselves in a situation" we Brexiteers are generally happy to leave on WTO terms, it's the EU who are trying to screw us over by not negotiating a deal unless we roll over first. Barnier now saying that we might own the waters around our shoreline but not the fish in it - mmmm surely even you can work out that the EU is getting desperate ??
PNWokingham
Journeyman Pro
you are beyond help. We are behind our country in obtaining a trade deal, and what we are asking for is very logical, fair and absolutely a win-win for both sides - of course there will be some wiggle room on details etc but the principals are fair. You are the one whining all the time about rhetoric from the Leave vote - time to give it a break and focus on the facts as they are now and not digging up hot air. You have totally failed to comment on the UK's position in any way other than banging on that the EU can do what it wants - it is like a stuck record!
Grant85
Head Pro
That's fair enough, but democracy didn't stop the day after the referendum, and even going back to the 2019 election, it's tough to extrapolate from that there was a majority for leave in the country at that polling point.
We were told this would be the easiest negotiation in the history of international trade deals and the UK would hold all the cards.
As far as I'm concerned Brexit is a pig in a poke and will either be so damaging that people will start disowning it or watered down to the extent that the leave side will never be satisfied. At the moment, we are heading for the former.
Ultimately there is no sense in the UK or EU side having huge trade barriers, but obviously how you get to that and still have a Brexit in anything other than name only is a real quandary.
drdel
Tour Rookie
In my mind there is no quandry. The growth markets are not in the EU. The UK must be free to deal with the Asia and Commonwealth countries and capture a share of the South American development. We simply cannot afford to be shackled to the debt ridden members and Germany's manufacturing led growth will not continue as it is uncompetitive so it cannot support EU members' debt.
The UK has been a cash cow for the EU which is unsustainable in the modern world economy.
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
I keep seeing this 'Easiest deal/negotiation in history' being quoted as a putdown for Brexit. Let's get it into the context it was said. Here is a quote on what he said from the Guardian, it's not exactly what you're suggesting:
Liam Fox has said a post-Brexit free trade deal with the EU should be the “easiest in human history”, but insisted that the UK could survive without one.
The international trade secretary said: “The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history.
“We are already beginning with zero tariffs, and we are already beginning at the point of maximal regulatory equivalence, as it is called. In other words, our rules and our laws are exactly the same.”
However, he went on to concede that securing a deal would probably not be easy in practice. “The only reason that we wouldn’t come to a free and open agreement is because politics gets in the way of economics,” Fox said.
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Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
I'd argue that as seen from the current pandemic, we have fundamental structural issues in our economy, such as an over reliance on service sector, especially hospitality. It's a bit frightening to me what measures we seem to be taking with public health to help the 72 coffee and sandwich shops per square mile in city centres survive. And those issues are probably more urgent to sort out that following the narrative that the EU has/will hold us back.
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