• We'd like to take this opportunity to wish you a Happy Holidays and a very Merry Christmas from all at Golf Monthly. Thank you for sharing your 2025 with us!

Brexit - The negotiations.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Mudball said:
In other news Pound is becoming an emerging market currency, says BofA analyst
.. https://www.ft.com/content/4fd04fd9-7209-4b7c-97a1-97466f226159

I am sure there is another side to this.. after all we were the 5th or 6th largest economy at some point... Also may not have so much impact if you are hedgie with money offshore - albiet it might make ur even more richer every time ur offshore wealth back into GBP
Click to expand...
Excellent .. I am all in favour of an independent Scotland going with a bawbee as it's currency. Much classier than a groat.;):eek:
 
Hobbit said:
WTO tariffs? The WTO tariff database lists the tariffs each countries, or trading organisation(EU), applies. The WTO doesn't create tariffs. "These tariffs..." are these the WTO tariffs that don't exist?

We may not have a trade deal agreed by the end of the year but there may well be an agreed framework. Your point; "we cannot simply strike bilateral deals with the EU unless a target future framework agreement is in place." Please explain... I read that as waffle and gobbledygook - might even be twaddle. Surely everyone creates a framework(specification) for any deal?

Would you agree, sign, anything without a specification, a framework?
Click to expand...
The UK can make free trade bilateral agreements with the EU in specific areas if the parties (UK and EU) can demonstrate to WTO Contracting Parties that UK and EU have agreed the framework schedule of a future comprehensive trade schedule and have a plan in place - with timescales - for reaching final agreement on that trade schedule.

That's what GATT Article XXIV para 5c is all about (the one Johnson didn't know about when talking about agreeing bilateral deals with the EU whilst operating under WTO rules).

5(c) any interim agreement referred to in subparagraphs (a) and (b) shall include a plan and schedule for the formation of such a customs union or of such a free-trade area within a reasonable length of time.

Without a framework or a plan - and even with them - WTO Contracting Parties can challenge what the UK and the EU have agreed - and then based upon a vote of the WTO partners the WTO Contracting Parties can specify changes to the agreement we have made. If the UK and EU do not accept the changes then the WTO rules say that the UK/EU agreement cannot be put in place (Article XXIV para 7b)

7(b) If, after having studied the plan and schedule included in an interim agreement referred to in paragraph 5 in consultation with the parties to that agreement and taking due account of the information made available in accordance with the provisions of subparagraph (a), the CONTRACTING PARTIES find that such agreement is not likely to result in the formation of a customs union or of a free-trade area within the period contemplated by the parties to the agreement or that such period is not a reasonable one, the CONTRACTING PARTIES shall make recommendations to the parties to the agreement. The parties shall not maintain or put into force, as the case may be, such agreement if they are not prepared to modify it in accordance with these recommendations.

So when we disappear out the back end of the transition period without a deal - I do hope that we have something agreed with them...
 
Last edited:
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
The UK can make free trade bilateral agreements with the EU in specific areas if the parties (UK and EU) can demonstrate to WTO Contracting Parties that UK and EU have agreed the framework schedule of a future comprehensive trade schedule and have a plan in place - with timescales - for reaching final agreement on that trade schedule.

That's what GATT Article XXIV para 5c is all about (the one Johnson didn't know about when talking about agreeing bilateral deals with the EU whilst operating under WTO rules).

5(c) any interim agreement referred to in subparagraphs (a) and (b) shall include a plan and schedule for the formation of such a customs union or of such a free-trade area within a reasonable length of time.

Without a framework or a plan - and even with them - WTO Contracting Parties can challenge what the UK and the EU have agreed - and then based upon a vote of the WTO partners the WTO Contracting Parties can specify changes to the agreement we have made. If the UK and EU do not accept the changes then the WTO rules say that the UK/EU agreement cannot be put in place (Article XXIV para 7b)

7(b) If, after having studied the plan and schedule included in an interim agreement referred to in paragraph 5 in consultation with the parties to that agreement and taking due account of the information made available in accordance with the provisions of subparagraph (a), the CONTRACTING PARTIES find that such agreement is not likely to result in the formation of a customs union or of a free-trade area within the period contemplated by the parties to the agreement or that such period is not a reasonable one, the CONTRACTING PARTIES shall make recommendations to the parties to the agreement. The parties shall not maintain or put into force, as the case may be, such agreement if they are not prepared to modify it in accordance with these recommendations.

So when we disappear out the back end of the transition period without a deal - I do hope that we have something agreed with them...
Click to expand...
Says the man who doesnt understand how Tariffs work.

What you are suggesting here only applies to an interim period while a free trade agreement is being negotiated, countries can agree free trade agreements at will.
 
SocketRocket said:
Says the man who doesnt understand how Tariffs work.

What you are suggesting here only applies to an interim period while a free trade agreement is being negotiated, countries can agree free trade agreements at will.
Click to expand...
Yes - but they have to have a framework Free trade schedule agreed up front and a realistic plan to finalise it. If they don’t then anything they agree as an interim can be challenged. That’s what being ‘in control’ means in the context of the WTO. We and the EU have to play by WTO rules.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Yes - but they have to have a framework Free trade schedule agreed up front and a realistic plan to finalise it. If they don’t then anything they agree as an interim can be challenged. That’s what being ‘in control’ means in the context of the WTO. We and the EU have to play by WTO rules.
Click to expand...
I say again, that's only for interim agreements, taking back control means we can do that or not.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Yes - but they have to have a framework Free trade schedule agreed up front and a realistic plan to finalise it. If they don’t then anything they agree as an interim can be challenged. That’s what being ‘in control’ means in the context of the WTO. We and the EU have to play by WTO rules.
Click to expand...

And not just challenged as an interim agreement. Any final trade can be challenged under WTO rules. The EU had had many agreements challenged, and has lost many of those challenges, receiving a number of significant fines from the WTO. The protectionist EU has an horrendous record with the WTO.

The EU can't just agree a completely free trade agreement with the UK without risking a 3rd country challenging that agreement if that 3rd country doesn't have the same level of access to the EU and UK markets.

But at least the EU has recently managed to install a German as Head of the WTO....
 
Doon frae Troon said:
Looks like we will have to go 'cap in hand' to the EU and buy the French tested lorry port operations system as the UK one 'has hit a few snags'.
Pattern seems to be emerging here.:unsure:
Click to expand...

I'm sure you are certain there was absolutely no UK input as you have researched and know the details of the companies, the IPR owners, the software designers and code writers of the system the French tested! Alternatively, perhaps your post is just anti-UK simplistic spin.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
Looks like we will have to go 'cap in hand' to the EU and buy the French tested lorry port operations system as the UK one 'has hit a few snags'.
Pattern seems to be emerging here.:unsure:
Click to expand...

Mmm, is there anything wrong with buying an off the shelf option, saving development costs? Equally, the U.K. has been tracking imports from around the world since forever. Is a container any different from a lorry, just another unit to track? ((( and having imported from around the world....is the article accurate....)))

I’m tempted to call BS on your post but to be fair I’ve not looked up your source.
 
Hobbit said:
Mmm, is there anything wrong with buying an off the shelf option, saving development costs? Equally, the U.K. has been tracking imports from around the world since forever. Is a container any different from a lorry, just another unit to track? ((( and having imported from around the world....is the article accurate....)))

I’m tempted to call BS on your post but to be fair I’ve not looked up your source.
Click to expand...
Of course not, makes absolute sense to me.
I seem to recall Davis or somebody saying that they will be well prepared and systems will be in place, a few months to go and they scrambling around for a solution that works for the EU and UK.
Cap and cheque book in hand to France. How much money was wasted developing the UK system. Were Tory donors involved in the process.:unsure:
 
Doon frae Troon said:
Of course not, makes absolute sense to me.
I seem to recall Davis or somebody saying that they will be well prepared and systems will be in place, a few months to go and they scrambling around for a solution that works for the EU and UK.
Cap and cheque book in hand to France. How much money was wasted developing the UK system. Were Tory donors involved in the process.:unsure:
Click to expand...

Perhaps you might provide the exact name of the system/software to which to refer?
 
Doon frae Troon said:
Of course not, makes absolute sense to me.
I seem to recall Davis or somebody saying that they will be well prepared and systems will be in place, a few months to go and they scrambling around for a solution that works for the EU and UK.
Cap and cheque book in hand to France. How much money was wasted developing the UK system. Were Tory donors involved in the process.:unsure:
Click to expand...

Aren't you making up selected questions for your own agenda? Let's face it, those two questions are very loaded. What is wrong with importing a ready made solution?

To repeat, the UK has imported from 3rd countries for donkey's years. Add the EU countries to that list. TBH, it sounds like a non-story made up to create a picture to satisfy someone's bias.
 
Hobbit said:
Aren't you making up selected questions for your own agenda? Let's face it, those two questions are very loaded. What is wrong with importing a ready made solution?

To repeat, the UK has imported from 3rd countries for donkey's years. Add the EU countries to that list. TBH, it sounds like a non-story made up to create a picture to satisfy someone's bias.
Click to expand...

Surely Brian you're not suggesting that DFT is a tad biased against a Tory Government - well that's a new one for me ?
 
chrisd said:
Surely Brian you're not suggesting that DFT is a tad biased against a Tory Government - well that's a new one for me ?
Click to expand...

I think his questions suggest a bias but I doubt he made the story up. Maybe he was selective with how he reported the story?
 
Hobbit said:
Mmm, is there anything wrong with buying an off the shelf option, saving development costs? Equally, the U.K. has been tracking imports from around the world since forever. Is a container any different from a lorry, just another unit to track? ((( and having imported from around the world....is the article accurate....)))

I’m tempted to call BS on your post but to be fair I’ve not looked up your source.
Click to expand...
Perhaps this item would be a start
https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog...ady-for-brexit-we-havent-even-started-as-yet/ - and there's a reference to this item https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...er-checks-trade-michael-gove-eu-a9328211.html

There are some pretty scary allegations! It's certainly scary, if it's true, that UK hasn't even started to build the UK equivalent! And that one won't be ready until 2025!
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top