Brexit - The negotiations.

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SwingsitlikeHogan said:
I would expect the EU to make whatever concessions that they deem necessary to ensure that they manage (to their best outcome and advantage), such as, UK access to the EU single market - with minimum risk to, and impact on, the economies of the EU member states - and also to ensure the best EU access to UK markets. I would expect no less and no more. We have left the EU, the EU can decide what concessions they wish to make for their own best interests and whatever bargaining chips they can pull together from across the EU27 that might ease acceptance across the EU27 of whatever deal is arrived at.

Meanwhile it seems that the UK is waving a big shotgun in the air telling the EU that unless they give us what we want we'll shoot ourselves in the foot and stomp off triumphantly to trade with the EU and the RoW under the rules of the WTO - and so become a WTO ruler taker whilst telling all that we are taking back control.

All good fun. But hey. It's what the people voted for. We are out and we might as well get used to the idea that the EU is a competitor and so will play as fair as it chooses to play - no point in us whinging.
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We don't want any of that rubbish, just a simple free trade arrangement like the ones they have agreed with other countries. WTO don't tell us what we have to give to the European Union either, we are free to decide that ourselves.
 
SocketRocket said:
We don't want any of that rubbish, just a simple free trade arrangement like the ones they have agreed with other countries. WTO don't tell us what we have to give to the European Union either, we are free to decide that ourselves.
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Indeed - and we will get what the EU want to agree with us - which may or may not be Canada-like. And if it comes to it - as many would seem to wish - when trading under WTO rules we will be having to accept their rules. No matter - taking back control and all that - that's what the people voted for :)
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Indeed - and we will get what the EU want to agree with us - which may or may not be Canada-like. And if it comes to it - as many would seem to wish - when trading under WTO rules we will be having to accept their rules. No matter - taking back control and all that - that's what the people voted for :)
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And they will be accepting ours. Why do you always sound as if you want the UK to do badly.
 
SocketRocket said:
And they will be accepting ours. Why do you always sound as if you want the UK to do badly.
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Always "sound like".... Its non-stop "the EU this and the EU that." He says he wants the UK to do well but talks incessantly about what the EU will do, and how very dare the UK push back.

He uses different media to view what's going on in the USA but doesn't go looking for what's been said in Europe. I read 2 different sources from here in Spain and another from Portugal. The EU are being pushed just as hard from many of the member states for a quick, equitable deal.
 
Everyone is looking at this like it is a zero-sum game, in reality, it is quite easy for both sides to lose. It's also easy to frame it as the EU will lose less, that still doesn't make it palatable - would you be willing to lose an arm just to make sure I lose two? Hardly a massive victory when it can all be avoided.
The other factor is that despite the EU acting as a bloc, it is still made up of single countries, those that have to plug the UKs contributions won't be happy if they have to take up the slack, those that are net receivers won't be happy if they now get less, those who have more trade with the UK won't be happy even if the EU as a whole is not dependent, so the EU has to manage these internal rifts at the same time.

People act like the UK will become a destitute third world country, forgetting that yes it is leaving the worlds second-largest economic bloc, but it is still the 5-7th largest standalone economy in the world. Within the EU only Germany is a bigger economy and France is about equal. In the world, only US, China, Japan, Germany and India are bigger economies. The UK is still a big player in the global scene, despite the doom that some predict.

I wish I could find it again, there was a study from a prestigious US institution (think Harvard, MIT one of those big players) that free trade deals don't actually provide all that much benefit to trade volumes as people assume. Businesses like them as they reduce red tape, but in the big scheme of things unless you go full autarky, trade generally still flows in similar volumes anyway. I think the figure in the study was that if the US didn't have any of it's trade deals, the total impact would only be 2.5% of GDP, so obviously a negative impact, but not full-on destruction of the economy.
 
Dibby said:
Everyone is looking at this like it is a zero-sum game, in reality, it is quite easy for both sides to lose. It's also easy to frame it as the EU will lose less, that still doesn't make it palatable - would you be willing to lose an arm just to make sure I lose two? Hardly a massive victory when it can all be avoided.
The other factor is that despite the EU acting as a bloc, it is still made up of single countries, those that have to plug the UKs contributions won't be happy if they have to take up the slack, those that are net receivers won't be happy if they now get less, those who have more trade with the UK won't be happy even if the EU as a whole is not dependent, so the EU has to manage these internal rifts at the same time.

People act like the UK will become a destitute third world country, forgetting that yes it is leaving the worlds second-largest economic bloc, but it is still the 5-7th largest standalone economy in the world. Within the EU only Germany is a bigger economy and France is about equal. In the world, only US, China, Japan, Germany and India are bigger economies. The UK is still a big player in the global scene, despite the doom that some predict.

I wish I could find it again, there was a study from a prestigious US institution (think Harvard, MIT one of those big players) that free trade deals don't actually provide all that much benefit to trade volumes as people assume. Businesses like them as they reduce red tape, but in the big scheme of things unless you go full autarky, trade generally still flows in similar volumes anyway. I think the figure in the study was that if the US didn't have any of it's trade deals, the total impact would only be 2.5% of GDP, so obviously a negative impact, but not full-on destruction of the economy.
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I pretty much agree with your sentiments. I just add that (IMO) one of the biggest issues that EU-UK negotiations will crystalise is down to the way the EU membership and Brussels make decisions. The current issues with ratification of their budget and the Canadian deal is demonstrated by the challenges of getting 27 parliaments to agree collectively when they have different strategic requirements and domestics markets to satisfy when a minority pay into the pot from which the majority others draw.
 
Dando said:
because then he and the other pant wetters can say “I told you so”
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UK is run by a far right wing cabal led by a lying cheating racist, that may be of no concern to you but it is to 58% who didn't vote for Trump Lite. Maybe that's a reason for some confidence issues wrt EU/Brexit? Let's just see what happens before the insults.
 
maxfli65 said:
UK is run by a far right wing cabal led by a lying cheating racist, that may be of no concern to you but it is to 58% who didn't vote for Trump Lite. Maybe that's a reason for some confidence issues wrt EU/Brexit? Let's just see what happens before the insults.[/QUOTE

It’s a shame the pant wetting remainers didn’t wait to see what happens before the insults!
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maxfli65 said:
UK is run by a far right wing cabal led by a lying cheating racist, that may be of no concern to you but it is to 58% who didn't vote for Trump Lite. Maybe that's a reason for some confidence issues wrt EU/Brexit? Let's just see what happens before the insults.
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Can you see the irony in your two highlighted comments.
 
drdel said:
Under the new budget France will get billions more for their farmers. However the EU will only do a deal if the UK agrees not to support businesses and distort competition, REALLY.
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Isn’t it their right to say that, and if we want a deal we have to either agree or barter for better?
Surely we knew they may impose punitive “punishments “ as part of their position !
They are EU members first, as they’ve always been!
 
Hobbit said:
Always "sound like".... Its non-stop "the EU this and the EU that." He says he wants the UK to do well but talks incessantly about what the EU will do, and how very dare the UK push back.

He uses different media to view what's going on in the USA but doesn't go looking for what's been said in Europe. I read 2 different sources from here in Spain and another from Portugal. The EU are being pushed just as hard from many of the member states for a quick, equitable deal.
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Unfortunately, from the forums two camps. Pro and anti EU. There’s Not many neutrals. Most have there minds made up. The papers and the BBC don’t help with there biased views. however. You/ Hobbit and other forumers are in a position where you don’t have to read the British propaganda drivel re the Brexit trade negotiations. Would love to hear how the EU countries and press sees these negotiations etc going. Views from you, Italian outcast, slab and a few others might give us another view. ?

Crack on Hobbit ?
 
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