Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Foxholer]

so it was a lie none the less, what where the bigger lies s told by remain?

While the number (350m) was wrong (a lie) as it did not deduct the rebate Thatcher negotiated, there was no commitment to fund the NHS from the money saved - simply a 'Lets fund the NHS instead' message!

Just google 'EU bus' to check!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

It sounds like you don’t understand the meaning of winning and losing.
We were told by the PM it would be implemented.
So Remain is out of the equation.
Whatever deal they mash up is fine but we must leave.
If not democracy is dead ,just get on with it.

Our democracy is a representative democracy and our MPs are not delegates - parliament is currently doing exactly what it is designed to do - to hold the executive to account. Just ask the DUP and Farage and crew - for them our democracy is alive and kicking and doing it's job.

 

[clubchamp98]

Ave I missed owt 😳

I would go back to Oz.

 

[drdel]

Bercow strikes again....

 

[Deleted member 18121]

Bercow has refused the vote....wow.

 

[clubchamp98]

Our democracy is a representative democracy and our MPs are not delegates - parliament is currently doing exactly what it is designed to do - to hold the executive to account. Just ask the DUP and Farage and crew.

And move the goalposts halfway through (Benn act)
That’s why the government go underhanded to try and get around it.
Leaving should have been reasonably easy ,it’s our own MPs who have complicated it.

 

[Foxholer]

Our democracy is a representative democracy and our MPs are not delegates - parliament is currently doing exactly what it is designed to do - to hold the executive to account. Just ask the DUP and Farage and crew.

While it's doing that, I'm afraid it's (also) doing rather more than that!

 

[drdel]

If I was the EU I'd want shot of this crowd of timewasters at the earliest opportunity.

 

[clubchamp98]

Aggressive? Sorry I didn't realise you were so precious.

So from saying we couldn't rejoin you're now saying we can. And that is what really burns my pish. People say one thing but when they're pulled for it they change their tune. Do you know the UK wouldn't be offered the same, or better, terms or is this another assumption based on chicken bones and pixie dust?

Like I said, lets be honest in the debate.

We would be welcomed with open arms as long as we are a net contributor.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

While the number (350m) was wrong (a lie) as it did not deduct the rebate Thatcher negotiated, there was no commitment to fund the NHS from the money saved - simply a 'Lets fund the NHS instead' message!

Just google 'EU bus' to check!

Sorry - but 'Let's fund the NHS instead' is pretty clearly an indication by the Leave campaign of what £350m/week could be used for. The £350m/week was never there to be used in any way - the figure was a lie. And so saying £350/week could be used to fund the NHS instead was also a lie. The official Leave campaign refused to disown it (Farage distanced himself for his own reasons) - it stayed on the bus and elsewhere - and as DomCumm subsequently boasted it was a critical message in persuading voters to vote Leave. But water under the bridge.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And move the goalposts halfway through (Benn act)
That’s why the government go underhanded to try and get around it.
Leaving should have been reasonably easy ,it’s our own MPs who have complicated it.

The goalposts haven't moved - they might have got a little smaller as a result of the Benn Act but the government's objective remains exactly the same - leaving the EU. Now if the governments objective is to leave with No Deal then I agree with you...

Interestingly Speaker Bercow in turning down the vote request for today - has just explained how the government (in the person of Jacob Rees-Mogg as Leader of the House) in it's petulance on Saturday by not going through with a vote as they could have - actually has shot itself in the foot and made things harder for itself.

 

[drdel]

Sorry - but 'Let's fund the NHS instead' is pretty clearly an indication by the Leave campaign of what £350m/week could be used for. The £350m/week was never there to be used in any way - the figure was a lie. And so saying £350/week could be used to fund the NHS instead was also a lie. The official Leave campaign refused to disown it (Farage distanced himself for his own reasons) - it stayed on the bus and elsewhere - and as DomCumm subsequently boasted it was a critical message in persuading voters to vote Leave. But water under the bridge.

I thought we'd done this debate to death....

We could at least try and keep current.

 

[chrisd]

I thought we'd done this debate to death....

We could at least try and keep current.

In 15,000 posts we've done it to death!

 

[Slime]

That's fairly obvious isn't it? People got the chance to have a say and as we live in a representative democracy the outcome of it has been discussed at length, by those chosen to represent us. Now we should be asked how we leave and if the "people" still do want to leave because circumstances have changed.

Another referendum?
If so, the options must be twofold.
A) Leave with Boris' deal or B) Leave with no deal.

 

[Hobbit]

The goalposts haven't moved - they might have got a little smaller as a result of the Benn Act but the government's objective remains exactly the same - leaving the EU. Now if the governments objective is to leave with No Deal then I agree with you...

Interestingly Speaker Bercow in turning down the vote request for today - has just explained how the government (in the person of Jacob Rees-Mogg as Leader of the House) in it's petulance on Saturday by not going through with a vote as they could have - actually has shot itself in the foot and made things harder for itself.

I think Bercow is very wrong indeed. The rules stipulate that the Speaker can refuse to bring something back for a second vote, not that it stopped him allowing May's deal to be voted on 3 times. Johnson's deal has never been voted on. Bercow is bang out of order and needs to go.

 

[drdel]

I think Bercow is very wrong indeed. The rules stipulate that the Speaker can refuse to bring something back for a second vote, not that it stopped him allowing May's deal to be voted on 3 times. Johnson's deal has never been voted on. Bercow is bang out of order and needs to go.

He's trying to claim it was voted through on Saturday.

 

[Foxholer]

Sorry - but 'Let's fund the NHS instead' is pretty clearly an indication by the Leave campaign of what £350m/week could be used for. The £350m/week was never there to be used in any way - the figure was a lie. And so saying £350/week could be used to fund the NHS instead was also a lie. The official Leave campaign refused to disown it (Farage distanced himself for his own reasons) - it stayed on the bus and elsewhere - and as DomCumm subsequently boasted it was a critical message in persuading voters to vote Leave. But water under the bridge.

Simply classic spin imo! Connecting the two, but by not actually saying 'Lets use it to fund...', leaving the amount, if indeed any, open! Anyone who believed an extra £350 would go to NHS was/is, imo, daft!

 

[bobmac]

Sorry - but 'Let's fund the NHS instead' is pretty clearly an indication by the Leave campaign of what £350m/week could be used for. The £350m/week was never there to be used in any way - the figure was a lie. And so saying £350/week could be used to fund the NHS instead was also a lie. The official Leave campaign refused to disown it (Farage distanced himself for his own reasons) - it stayed on the bus and elsewhere - and as DomCumm subsequently boasted it was a critical message in persuading voters to vote Leave. But water under the bridge.

Simply classic spin imo! Connecting the two, but by not actually saying 'Lets use it to fund...', leaving the amount, if indeed any, open! Anyone who believed an extra £350 would go to NHS was/is, imo, daft!

Dumbfounded
Almost speechless
Just can't believe you are still arguing about that dam bus 3 years later.

 

[Foxholer]

Dumbfounded
Almost speechless
Just can't believe you are still arguing about that dam bus 3 years later.

It's used because it typifies so much of the campaign and subsequent 'justifying' demands for a 2nd Referendum!

And and so many MPs are equally deceitful about their motives too!

 

[chrisd]

He's trying to claim it was voted through on Saturday.

I think that its more about not allowing another debate on it which they did do on Saturday, sadly it stops the meaningful vote. These anti Brexit scum politicians need to learn what the constituents can do when the eagerly awaited election finally happens