Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Hobbit]

Can you explain to me please the pitfalls of being in the EU under the Rules of the Lisbon treaty that will affect the UK ? - you keep saying pitfalls etc but what actually are they ?

There was a really good article in The Independent about a year ago saying the the Lisbon Treaty needed scrapping. They agreed with many that the EU needs to reform in some areas but it also went on to say that the economic model for the EU will only work for France, Germany, The Netherlands and the UK.

I did see a piece elsewhere but I can't remember where which stated that the economic model needed for Southern Europe has to be different than that of Northern Europe. If it isn't, both sides of the model will fail.

I've not seen anything for ages on it, nor can I remember much of the detail, but the consensus across a number of articles was the Treaty is too "one side fits all" to work.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

It is a copy of the official Leave leaflet posted through doors.

It is from voteleavetakecontrol.org, which is a campaign group. It is not a government communication, which said that a referendum instigated by the government would be held and that the government would implement the result.
it was a government information document issued with implied neutrality, notwithstanding the fact that Cameron himself was/is a remainder.

Which means that the terms of the vote were Remain or Leave. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[clubchamp98]

I think women are now allowed to be drs, teachers and other intellectuals 👍

And MPs jeez.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

😉😆

 

[MegaSteve]

Being educated doesn't automatically equate to being wise...

 

[clubchamp98]

Being educated doesn't automatically equate to being wise...

Yes I think Boris had a decent education.

 

[SocketRocket]

They are not 2 different issues!

The only people that talked about a No Deal scenario was the remain supporters and that was dismissed under project fear.

No talk of No Deal until TM flogged the dead horse.

All of a sudden it’s discussed like it’s the only option, the PM has ran about since August like a bull in a china shop promising all sorts and as yet has failed to deliver anything.

As your so dismissive of my business, let me explain:

We had a vote and remainers (losers as you called them) were told to suck it up and move on as they lost.

I’m a leaver (winner) and now the leave situation has changed, I’m now told I don’t matter, am I expected to suck it up and move on?

You’ve banged on about democracy, but it only sounds like a drum you beat when it suits you personally.

No deal was always an option, when we triggered Article 50 the path it takes us down has No Deal as one of the outcomes: Leave with a deal, Leave without a deal or rescind the article.

You are distorting my previous comments to suit your agenda. I explained to you that when I used the term 'losers' it was in the context of the referendum vote when I used it to reference those that lost the vote(which they did) It didnt mean they were 'life losers' as you are trying to corrupt it to. Lets get it right and drop this silly pretence.

The PM is trying to negotiate a deal but is being hamstrung by many in Parliament because they don't want a deal, they only want to remain and are ignoring the referendum vote but are denying their true intentions. Before you go into your defend Labour mode, once again these are MPs of all parties

Regarding your comments on being a leave voter and who was told to suck it up I fail to follow your logic (if there is any). Yes I bang on about democracy its always a drum I beat and it ALWAYS suits me.

 

[SocketRocket]

I don’t think most of them could actually read and understand what’s written on the ballot paper

I didn't expect anyone to take it serious.

 

[SocketRocket]

View attachment 28263

😉😆

I guess the emojis mean youre not really calling those that voted leave thick racists 🙄🚮

 

[Deleted member 16999]

It is from voteleavetakecontrol.org, which is a campaign group. It is not a government communication, which said that a referendum instigated by the government would be held and that the government would implement the result.
it was a government information document issued with implied neutrality, notwithstanding the fact that Cameron himself was/is a remainder.

Which means that the terms of the vote were Remain or Leave. Nothing more, nothing less.

Well done on the research, now answer the rest of my point that nobody but remainers mentioned No Deal and that that was dismissed as project fear.

 

[SocketRocket]

Maybe voting should be limited to certain professions like drs, teachers . Educated people who dont blindly support one way or another

So MPs would not get the vote then.

 

[SocketRocket]

Well done on the research, now answer the rest of my point that nobody but remainers mentioned No Deal and that that was dismissed as project fear.

Voting to leave the EU meant article 50 would be activated if the vote won. One of article 50s conclusions is to leave without a deal. I thought we were all informed of that.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

No deal was always an option, when we triggered Article 50 the path it takes us down has No Deal as one of the outcomes: Leave with a deal, Leave without a deal or rescind the article.

You are distorting my previous comments to suit your agenda. I explained to you that when I used the term 'losers' it was in the context of the referendum vote when I used it to reference those that lost the vote(which they did) It didnt mean they were 'life losers' as you are trying to corrupt it to. Lets get it right and drop this silly pretence.

The PM is trying to negotiate a deal but is being hamstrung by many in Parliament because they don't want a deal, they only want to remain and are ignoring the referendum vote but are denying their true intentions. Before you go into your defend Labour mode, once again these are MPs of all parties

Regarding your comments on being a leave voter and who was told to suck it up I fail to follow your logic (if there is any). Yes I bang on about democracy its always a drum I beat and it ALWAYS suits me.

Bit in bold, rubbish as you have never answered my post about you using the word losers.

As for failing to follow the logic, you stated you’re not interested in my business when I said as a leave voter I did not want a no deal, therefore I’m asking you, I want to leave with a deal, shouldn’t I get a further say in how we leave or are my wishes as a leaver being ignored?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Voting to leave the EU meant article 50 would be activated if the vote won. One of article 50s conclusions is to leave without a deal. I thought we were all informed of that.

Only one of the conclusions, but not the be all and end all, we can keep negotiating if the EU agrees until Parliament supports a deal.
Why the sudden rush to crash out?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Keir Starmer was suggesting opening up a next referendum to 16 and above and any foreign nationals 😵

#

Jolly good example in following Scotland's lead.
Most 16 year olds are pretty switched on these days.

I had a lengthy conversation with my 13 year old grandson tonight on politics.
He was listening to Corbyn's speech and asked me why he was so different to Johnson.
He was aware that most sensible social benefits like NHS, minimum wage come from Labour governments.
He could not understand why any young person could ever support Johnson and Trump. Only the angry old red necks vote for them

 

[clubchamp98]

Bit in bold, rubbish as you have never answered my post about you using the word losers.

As for failing to follow the logic, you stated you’re not interested in my business when I said as a leave voter I did not want a no deal, therefore I’m asking you, I want to leave with a deal, shouldn’t I get a further say in how we leave or are my wishes as a leaver being ignored?

Yes you should get a say and you voted to leave.
What about a leaver who wants no deal are their wishes being ignored.
We need a deal or no deal tie break.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Yes you should get a say and you voted to leave.
What about a leaver who wants no deal are their wishes being ignored.
We need a deal or no deal tie break.

Said that weeks ago that the only referendum (if we had another one) should be deal or no deal, either, but definitely out.

 

[SocketRocket]

Bit in bold, rubbish as you have never answered my post about you using the word losers.

As for failing to follow the logic, you stated you’re not interested in my business when I said as a leave voter I did not want a no deal, therefore I’m asking you, I want to leave with a deal, shouldn’t I get a further say in how we leave or are my wishes as a leaver being ignored?

This is the second time i have explained it but whats the point if you just stick your fingers in your ears and scream La la la la
la.

Hardly anyone wants a no deal, most of us want a good deal but you won't get one with no deal off the table.

I dont control what say you have or whether your wishes get ignored, im just another saddo like you posting politics on a golf forum. Ill tell you what, if my posts are so annoying to you then put me on your ignore list, simple!

 

[clubchamp98]

Sat here thinking did Ireland go through all this crap before their second referendum.

It would sort the backstop issue out if they had a decider best of three and voted to leave with us.
Been a long day .

 

[Jamesbrown]

Bit in bold, rubbish as you have never answered my post about you using the word losers.

As for failing to follow the logic, you stated you’re not interested in my business when I said as a leave voter I did not want a no deal, therefore I’m asking you, I want to leave with a deal, shouldn’t I get a further say in how we leave or are my wishes as a leaver being ignored?

I don’t think you actually voted leave. I’m calling shenanigans on that.

You couldn’t possibly of believed a propaganda leaflet that came through your door, and based your vote upon that.

You seem an intelligent man, but to base your vote on what was written on essentially spam mail was pretty daft. Did you take the red bus literally as well?