Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Tashyboy]

Thought so?
I'm interested what you think it means.
There is a lot of BS around about it.

The time you have spent typing it is BS is time you could of posted it.

I am interested why you think the votes of a majority of people should be disregarded. But I know am not gonna get an acceptable answer.

 

[robinthehood]

The time you have spent typing it is BS is time you could of posted it.

I am interested why you think the votes of a majority of people should be disregarded. But I know am not gonna get an acceptable answer.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:12007L/TXT

There you go, its to big to fit as text . Which bits concern you.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Paul as much as I have the utmost respect for you, what a pathetic question. The vote said leave or remain. Every major politician said they will respect that vote. Then post vote when it went against what most major politicians thought would happen. Cue lots of shuffling and MPs saying we must have a deal. What?

I will put the same question to you. Paste what the Lisbon treaty means to staying in the EU.

Tashy, let’s not get personal, I voted Leave.
The Leave campaign promised we’d leave with a deal, a deal that protected business’s and jobs and would bring us prosperity as we’d be free to from the EU chains.
I know exactly what was on the ballot paper, do you expect every ballot paper to cover every scenario when you vote?
It’s all too easy for people to say the ballot paper meant one thing or another without backing up what they say.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Can you provide proof its better to leave

Neither of us can

No I can't but I'm not the one saying it's better to stay in. All I'm saying is that I'm willing to take our chances by getting out.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Tashy, let’s not get personal, I voted Leave.
The Leave campaign promised we’d leave with a deal, a deal that protected business’s and jobs and would bring us prosperity as we’d be free to from the EU chains.
I know exactly what was on the ballot paper, do you expect every ballot paper to cover every scenario when you vote?
It’s all too easy for people to say the ballot paper meant one thing or another without backing up what they say.

I've highlighted what I believe was what was promised, I don't remember anyone promising a deal. And the EU are the ones who aren't offering a deal that fits in with the highlighted bit above. If we sign up to what they are currently offering then they still have some element of control over us.

 

[Taz]

Three questions early this evening: will BJ re-prorogue for Queens speech & keep his conference? Is opposition plan really just to torment him until Oct31? And if so what will voters conclude ahead of the inevitable election?

 

[Tashyboy]

Tashy, let’s not get personal, I voted Leave.
The Leave campaign promised we’d leave with a deal, a deal that protected business’s and jobs and would bring us prosperity as we’d be free to from the EU chains.
I know exactly what was on the ballot paper, do you expect every ballot paper to cover every scenario when you vote?
It’s all too easy for people to say the ballot paper meant one thing or another without backing up what they say.

Paul I know all that, but did the Leave party know at that time that politicians of all partys would start playing games. That politicians would vote against the wish of constituents that overwhelmingly voted leave. All of a sudd n every MP has a business degree and " knows what is good for us". Whether leave with a deal or not is still opinion.
Bottom line is what bogs me off. I don't expect every ballot paper to cover every scenario, governments have broken promises for generations. But there is no way in a thousand years can this group of elected PMs agree on what the deal should be. If that is the case, come October 31st, you have had your 3 years chance. We are out.

PS, love you loads 😉😘

 

[Deleted member 1418]

You got to wonder why the EU would want us in (apart from the Money)

That's the key thing. They'd quite happily see us go, but they need our money!

The first internal EU Commission meeting I went to following the referendum result that's all the Member States were asking!!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I've highlighted what I believe was what was promised, I don't remember anyone promising a deal. And the EU are the ones who aren't offering a deal that fits in with the highlighted bit above. If we sign up to what they are currently offering then they still have some element of control over us.

Here you go Gordon, the official Leave Campaign leaflet.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Please show were Leave meant out with No Deal.

As soon as parliament voted to approve triggering Article 50. Two years to negotiate or leave with no deal.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Paul I know all that, but did the Leave party know at that time that politicians of all partys would start playing games. That politicians would vote against the wish of constituents that overwhelmingly voted leave. All of a sudd n every MP has a business degree and " knows what is good for us". Whether leave with a deal or not is still opinion.
Bottom line is what bogs me off. I don't expect every ballot paper to cover every scenario, governments have broken promises for generations. But there is no way in a thousand years can this group of elected PMs agree on what the deal should be. If that is the case, come October 31st, you have had your 3 years chance. We are out.

PS, love you loads 😉😘

Tashy, in a GE do you vote for a Local MP or the Party? Either way you put your trust in them to hopefully ensure they do what’s best for the Country.
You get to pick and choose if they’ve met your standards at the next time the vote comes round.
Unfortunately we haven’t had 3 years of No Deal, we’ve had 2 months, prior to that the emphasis was on a Deal, in fact if you listen to the PM that is still the aim, the No Deal is a threat.
Try and remember only one Party has tried to get a deal and personally I believe we should have a cross party team negotiate our Leave in a sensible time frame, TM failed, the current PM is, in my opinion, lacking any credibility.
Stop mucking about and do a proper deal and let’s leave.

If the PM has done everything in his power to avoid a No Deal (still sceptical) and the EU kick us out, then my anger will be aimed at them, not our MP’s.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

As soon as parliament voted to approve triggering Article 50. Two years to negotiate or leave with no deal.

It didn’t mate, TM was mandated to negotiate a Deal within 2 years, at no time when Art 50 was voted on was the choice Deal or No Deal.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Paul, that doesn't say anything about NOT leaving if we can't agree a deal.

 

[ColchesterFC]

It didn’t mate, TM was mandated to negotiate a Deal within 2 years, at no time when Art 50 was voted on was the choice Deal or No Deal.

My understanding is that the two year time period is mandated by Article 50 and wasn't set by TM. Once that was triggered we had two years to negotiate. After that we should have been out with no deal.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

Here you go Gordon, the official Leave Campaign leaflet.

View attachment 28262

That is a campaign poster, not an official document.
The proper information about the vote was what the Government told us it would be.
And Cameron told us, as Prime Minister, in an official document that the
choice, to remain or leave , was ours, to be determined by a referendum , the result of which the Government would honour.
(On top of that, each main party manifesto ( other unofficial documents) promised to abide by the referendum )
But the important thing is what the government said in their document, sent to almost every household, and IIRC, it didn't talk about leaving with a deal.

 

[Jamesbrown]

Here you go Gordon, the official Leave Campaign leaflet.

View attachment 28262

Why didn’t you make your own mind up? Why did you believe the propaganda?

With such an important decision, you shouldn’t be believing newspapers, news, leaflets or red busses.

 

[robinthehood]

The time you have spent typing it is BS is time you could of posted it.

I am interested why you think the votes of a majority of people should be disregarded. But I know am not gonna get an acceptable answer.

I've posted a link to the entire treaty and am awaiting your response .

 

[Foxholer]

My understanding is that the two year time period is mandated by Article 50 and wasn't set by TM. Once that was triggered we had two years to negotiate. After that we should have been out with no deal.

Article 50 does indeed specify a 2 year negotiating period. No Deal applies after that time - unless an extension is agreed.
Are yiu suggesting that the extension is not part of Article 50? (That would be wrong). Or that May should not have asked for an extension? (She had to to attempt to get agreement from Parliament for her 'deal'.). Parliament, which, supposedly, has the final say about laws it has passed, has passed legislation designed to prevent BJ from simply allowing a No Deal by default!

 

[clubchamp98]

The Government need to take control back by being sensible, look at how much time TM wasted by not talking to others, how much time was wasted by her resigning etc. None of that was down to opposition parties.

I didn’t say it was the oppositions fault.

But it’s a pity these parties don’t cooperate a bit more over domestic stuff and not just Brexit.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Article 50 does indeed specify a 2 year negotiating period. No Deal applies after that time - unless an extension is agreed.
Are yiu suggesting that the extension is not part of Article 50? (That would be wrong). Or that May should not have asked for an extension? (She had to to attempt to get agreement from Parliament for her 'deal'.). Parliament, which, supposedly, has the final say about laws it has passed, has passed legislation designed to prevent BJ from simply allowing a No Deal by default!

I simply meant that no deal was the default option at the end of the two year negotiation period if a deal hadn't been agreed. The extension is still part of Article 50 but the default position remains leaving with no deal if nothing is agreed or we don't have a further extension.