Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

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SwingsitlikeHogan said:
OK - I get that - np. The fact is that Johnson agreed that 30days was an appropriate rough timescale for him coming up with a solution that he could present to the EU.

The EU are saying they don't have one on the table - and that is true, as the UK have said we will not leave anything written down with the EU (because we don't trust the EU not to leak). And so by leak or directly from the government we do not have any detail whatsoever about the solution they will be presenting to the EU on the 2nd and so we must trust that there is a worked solution that can be implemented on 1st Nov.
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And so today we submit in confidence 'technical solutions' but no formal proposals. Well I suppose that's a start. Wonder what these technical solutions are - solutions that perhaps weren't possible for Day #1 when May was negotiating - and solutions that we cannot know about. Just wondering why that might be. Not as if one month will make that much difference to the smuggling 'baddies' intent on circumventing them. But anyway. He got something to the EU within the 30days - so he can't be held to account for failing completely on the 30day thing - as no doubt he would have been.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Well what was the 30days about if it wasn't a timescale that Merkel thought reasonable - and that Johnson agreed was.

In any case - latest Camp Johnson utterances are that the EU won't see anything written down until about the 2nd October - after the Tory Party Conference - and that the EU have to be flexible in the talks. UK can keep May's Red Lines but EU has to be flexible. Ah well. EU thought they had done the flexible bit in agreeing to the UK preference for the backstop. The backstop that DRabb now refers to as the anti-democratic backstop. Wonder why he does that. Wormtongue DomCum I suspect.

Anyway - I look forward to reading our backstop proposals - those that can be implemented immediately on 1st Nov.
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The evidence is they can't be trusted = childish Tweets and social media games from self serving politicians. No one in their right mind would release details of sensitive negotiations to the public domain. Its quite normal for documents to be collected at the end of sensitive meetings and/or meetings to continue until a formal agreed result is agreed to maintain security and confidentiality.

There has been leaks on both sides: in my view, this poor statesmanship has significantly contributed to the lack of progress.
 
ger147 said:
Have the docs been leaked yet? Shouldn't be long till the details start to appear in the press...
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And of course this is not negotiation - as that doesn't start until the EU drops the backstop. Well that's what I thought BJohnson and DRabb et al were saying. This is just sharing of ideas...hope they are good ones. In Boris I Trust.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Week four - when you join a club and make financial commitments in respect of your membership - best be prepared to pay what you owe when you decide to leave - and don't expect any membership benefits after you have left.
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every week - when the majority of people who could be bothered to vote have decided to leave the club expect some to do nothing but whinge and whine about the result and post the same crap over and over again as they don't agree with the result
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
And so today we submit in confidence 'technical solutions' but no formal proposals. Well I suppose that's a start. Wonder what these technical solutions are - solutions that perhaps weren't possible for Day #1 when May was negotiating - and solutions that we cannot know about. Just wondering why that might be. Not as if one month will make that much difference to the smuggling 'baddies' intent on circumventing them. But anyway. He got something to the EU within the 30days - so he can't be held to account for failing completely on the 30day thing - as no doubt he would have been.
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But May was negotiating to stay in, not get out, so they were of no interest to her.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Week four - when you join a club and make financial commitments in respect of your membership - best be prepared to pay what you owe when you decide to leave - and don't expect any membership benefits after you have left.
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I refer you to week two!
If the club won’t let you leave .
What about all the buildings etc that we financed can we sell our share in them.

And week four yes please.
 
Watched the Cameron years .
The most telling quote came from Nicholas Sarkosy who said “we should have given Britain a bit more in the negotiations “ before the referendum was called they bluffed and lost.
It was really poor of the EU to just give Cameron two fingers and that has proven right.
But hindsight is a great thing ,but great leaders shouldn’t need it.!
They will never change from within and anyone who thinks they will is delusional. Imo.
 
clubchamp98 said:
Watched the Cameron years .
The most telling quote came from Nicholas Sarkosy who said “we should have given Britain a bit more in the negotiations “ before the referendum was called they bluffed and lost.
It was really poor of the EU to just give Cameron two fingers and that has proven right.
But hindsight is a great thing ,but great leaders shouldn’t need it.!
They will never change from within and anyone who thinks they will is delusional. Imo.
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I purposely didn't watch it. I find I'm exceptionally cynical of the whole timing of his autobiography and the airtime its getting. Talk about the elite looking after themselves! A Beeb doc to coincide with the release of his book. Its a blatant marketing exercise.

I never thought I'd see the day that I'd be so disgusted with the Beeb.
 
Hobbit said:
I purposely didn't watch it. I find I'm exceptionally cynical of the whole timing of his autobiography and the airtime its getting. Talk about the elite looking after themselves! A Beeb doc to coincide with the release of his book. Its a blatant marketing exercise.

I never thought I'd see the day that I'd be so disgusted with the Beeb.
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If the BBC didn’t at least acknowledge the book they would be criticised.
ITV got in first though with Tom Brady.
Very cynical I agree.

The main theme was it’s everybody else’s fault .
But he did take his share of the blame , a first for an ex premier.
One thing it really shows is the split in the Tory’s.

But showed to me how poor the EU are , they could have nip all this in the bud by giving him some sort of concessions to ward off a referendum.
But they never had the vision to see the mess it’s caused.
And just reinforce the view that you can’t change them from within .
 
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