Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Slime]

Genuine question, do you read that report and believe it to be likely true? Not the fact that someone has published a report as that is obviously true, but do you believe all/any of the analysis that we are likely to be billions upon billions better off after a no deal? A report written by Economists for Brexit? I'm not questioning the fact that those economists may well believe some/all of what they have written. But do reports written by people with an obvious vested interest in one conculsion being reached mean as much? I'd like to think that if I saw a report by say a group called 'Economists for Greater European Unity' I'd kind of know what it is likely to say to begin with and would therefore mostly just dismiss it. I am just wondering how much filtering out of stuff goes on on both sides?

Genuine answer, I take everything I read and here with a large pinch of salt as I believe everything to have a degree of bias.
I also believe people will tend to believe what suits their own personal Brexit beliefs/agenda/situation.
I'm now so cynical that I tend to disbelieve most things I read/here. I'm not even sure about Neil Armstrong anymore.
Whatever the spin from the remainers and the brexiteers, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

[jp5]

Whether you agree with it or not, if it was based on constituency votes, as an election is, everyone would have accepted the result without batting an eyelid. For all the twisting and turning by Remain those numbers are pretty damning.

I think you've just highlighted how poor our electoral system is for MPs.

 

[Hobbit]

I think you've just highlighted how poor our electoral system is for MPs.

The graphic made plenty of spin out of what was a binary choice. A or B, and B was chosen. All the rest is mainly waffle spun to reinforce the result.

I agree that the current system leaves so many of the electorate unrepresented in a GE but playing Devil's Advocate, why should the losers in a GE have their manifestos acted upon?

 

[SocketRocket]

Genuine question, do you read that report and believe it to be likely true? Not the fact that someone has published a report as that is obviously true, but do you believe all/any of the analysis that we are likely to be billions upon billions better off after a no deal? A report written by Economists for Brexit? I'm not questioning the fact that those economists may well believe some/all of what they have written. But do reports written by people with an obvious vested interest in one conculsion being reached mean as much? I'd like to think that if I saw a report by say a group called 'Economists for Greater European Unity' I'd kind of know what it is likely to say to begin with and would therefore mostly just dismiss it. I am just wondering how much filtering out of stuff goes on on both sides?

Maybe this should be looked at differently. "I beg your pardon, I never promised you a rose garden" I believe most people voting Brexit took the view that leaving meant more to them than any potential economic downturn which may or maynot happen. Due to project fear they dismissed suggestions of catastrophic downturns in the economy and were prepared to accept the outcomes.

I know you will not accept this and will probably be in favour of a second referendum as we didnt understand what we voted for and know so much more now, although I struggle to understand what.

I feel in every nerve and sinew that those trying to stop Brexit know in their hearts they are thwarting democracy and putting personal preference before moral fibre. Why not be honest and say 'Bollocks to democracy, I know better "

 

[Kellfire]

Maybe this should be looked at differently. "I beg your pardon, I never promised you a rose garden" I believe most people voting Brexit took the view that leaving meant more to them than any potential economic downturn which may or maynot happen. Due to projecy fear they dismissed suggestions of catastrophic downturns in the economy and were prepared to accept the outcomes.

I know you will not accept this and will probably be in favour of a second referendum as we didnt understand what we voted for and know so much more now.

I feel in every nerve and sinew that those trying to stop Brexit know in their hearts they are thwarting democracy and putting personal preference before moral fibre. Wjy not be honest and say 'Bollocks to democracy, I know better "

Your nerves and sinews are entirely wrong. Sorry that your gut instinct doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

 

[SocketRocket]

Your nerves and sinews are entirely wrong. Sorry that your gut instinct doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

Maybe you can substantiate that comment and show where you have scrutinised anything. Or is it just a kneejerk reaction with no substance. Certainly sounds like it.

 

[Kellfire]

Maybe you can substantiate that comment and show where you have scrutinised anything. Or is it just a kneejerk reaction with no substance. Certainly sounds like it.

You continually and erroneously claim that democracy must include surging ahead with any decision once it is made. We all know that is not true. You won’t admit it because you’re guilty of what you accuse others of; you’re the internet equivalent of a child banging on a desk and screaming “NOT LISTENING NOT LISTENING”.

 

[Mudball]

Just asking.... has this thread run its course or has it just got boring and repetitive
just saying.. Maybe we put this thread on hold till Oct - where it can be restarted in time for the next Armageddon

.. adding the mandatory to ensure i dont offend anyone and I have an excuse if pulled up

 

[Hobbit]

Just asking.... has this thread run its course or has it just got boring and repetitive
just saying.. Maybe we put this thread on hold till Oct - where it can be restarted in time for the next Armageddon

.. adding the mandatory to ensure i dont offend anyone and I have an excuse if pulled up

I'm hurt! I can't believe that after all we've been through, all the highs and lows, you want to put our relationship on ice. How could you be so cold and unfeeling?!?

 

[Mudball]

I'm hurt! I can't believe that after all we've been through, all the highs and lows, you want to put our relationship on ice. How could you be so cold and unfeeling?!?

Let me give you a hug.. ... This is how Europe is feeling about Brexit..

 

[SocketRocket]

You continually and erroneously claim that democracy must include surging ahead with any decision once it is made. We all know that is not true. You won’t admit it because you’re guilty of what you accuse others of; you’re the internet equivalent of a child banging on a desk and screaming “NOT LISTENING NOT LISTENING”.

You certainly have attitude problems. You are incapable of a debate without quickly resulting to insults and name calling. You Sir are the child that needs to grow up.

 

[Foxholer]

Yes they did, the PM only proposed it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Referendum_Act_2015

Oh dear! And you criticise me of playing with words!

Cameron promised it in 2013 and it was part of the 2015 Conservative Manifesto.

That decision was approved in the usual parliamentary way (through both Houses.).

 

[SocketRocket]

Oh dear! And you criticise me of playing with words!

Cameron promised it in 2013 and it was part of the 2015 Conservative Manifesto.

That decision was approved in the usual parliamentary way (through both Houses.).

So you agree it was in their manifesto.
I also gave you a copy of the 2017 manifesto where they committed to leaving.
Playing with words😅 You certainly are the master of that game.

 

[Foxholer]

...
I feel in every nerve and sinew that those trying to stop Brexit know in their hearts they are thwarting democracy and putting personal preference before moral fibre. Why not be honest and say 'Bollocks to democracy, I know better "

While I am totally against the concept of having another Referendum (at least to re-run the 2016 one), there is nothing about what they are doing that is 'thwarting' or 'saying 'Bollocks to' democracy! By all means criticise them for being poor losers etc - or even, perhaps, 'abusing democracy'. But what they are doing is actually a fundamental part of 'democracy'!

 

[Foxholer]

So you agree it was in their manifesto.
I also gave you a copy of the 2017 manifesto where they committed to leaving.
Playing with words😅 You certainly are the master of that game.

Oh dear..There you go playing with (actually dropping important) words again! Kindly desist! There's never been any question about that - now defunct - 2015 manifesto!

Holding the referendum was certainly in the 2015 Referendum - Cameron's last one. He had nothing to do with the 2017 one!

 

[SocketRocket]

Oh dear..There you go playing with (actually dropping important) words again! Kindly desist! There's never been any question about that - now defunct - 2015 manifesto!

Holding the referendum was certainly in the 2015 Referendum - Cameron's last one. He had nothing to do with the 2017 one!

I said both the conservatives and Labour had stated in their manifestos they would respect the outcome of the referendum. You challenged that and I have shown quite clearly they made those commitments. You are now squirming and trying to use semantics to wriggle out of your (incorrect) comments. Why not just own up to being wrong.

 

[Foxholer]

I said both the conservatives and Labour had stated in their manifestos they would respect the outcome of the referendum. You challenged that and I have shown quite clearly they made those commitments. You are now squirming and trying to use semantics to wriggle out of your (incorrect) comments. Why not just own up to being wrong.

Why are you harping back to a different issue. On that topic, we are simply of differing opinions! Stop acting like a spoilt child - or any of the descriptions you so readily apply to others who dare to disagree with you - and get over it!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You certainly have attitude problems. You are incapable of a debate without quickly resulting to insults and name calling. You Sir are the child that needs to grow up.

Maybe he needs to put a sock in it LOL

 

[SocketRocket]

Why are you harping back to a different issue. On that topic, we are simply of differing opinions! Stop acting like a spoilt child - or any of the descriptions you so readily apply to others who dare to disagree with you - and get over it!

I take it from your answer you cannot own up to being wrong so now after trying to wriggle out using semantics you have turned to juvenile name calling.

 

[SocketRocket]

Maybe he needs to put a sock in it LOL

Maybe.