Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[BubbaP]

Really, I don't recall any clamour from anyone except the wrong 50% of the Tory Party and UKIP and the minor far right parties to leave Europe.

Come on Doon, keep up, the last 3 years plus have been about leaving the EU, not Europe 🙄

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ne...osceptics-who-toppled-tory-prime-minister?amp

 

[Hacker Khan]

ChUK MPs will meet tomorrow to discuss the future of their fledgling party. Guido understands that five of their eleven MPs think the game is up and will push to disband the party, with some even wanting to move to join the Lib Dems, just a week after their humiliating defeat at the European Elections, where they failed to get even one MP elected.
Guido hears that MPs like Heidi Allen and Chuka Umunna are angry at what they saw as an Anna Soubry-Chris Leslie nexus seizing control of Change UK, with both of their spouses being appointed to key internal positions. They were also behind the, in hindsight, disastrous decision to not seek a pact with other Remain parties. Heidi is apparently ready to jump ship to the Lib Dems, who now control her local council…
The MPs who are rumoured to be staying put with ChUK or some variant of The Independent Group are Anna Soubry and Chris Leslie, who have been running the show, and Mike Gapes, whose fierce pro-nuclear position could not countenance joining the anti-Trident Liberal Democrats.
Meanwhile Heidi has been in discussions with Dominic Grieve, who is facing a strong deselection challenge in his Beaconsfield constituency. It is unclear if the ChUKs will move tomorrow after their meeting,the course will be set… Will Chuka try for LibDem leader?

That would be an interesting and I think good move. Much as I like Vince cable, he did look like some dishevelled old granddad and I can't help think did not overly appeal to younger voters who the Lib Dems could easily attract in todays poltical climate. And whilst it is a bit superficial, at least Chukka looks like he could lead a party.

 

[Hacker Khan]

TM knew there was no other deal available, with her restrictions. It will be interesting to see if Farage gets a party into the HoC, polls suggest it won’t have a majority and the opposition will be whipped if necessary to go against him. Although I would not be surprised if we see Tory’s make a government with him.

You know that there will be a Conservative/Brexit party coalition after the next GE which will happen sooner rather than later.

 

[SocketRocket]

There we go, let’s bring Labour in to it rather than accepting were the real responsibility lies.

There we go, let's put on the Corbyn blinkers and pretend he hasn't frustrated Brexit for his own political ends. Open your eyes.

 

[jp5]

Corbyn's a full blown Brexiteer. If May had engaged with him from the start instead of spending 3 years ignoring everyone else then I expect we'd have left by now.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Corbyn's a full blown Brexiteer. If May had engaged with him from the start instead of spending 3 years ignoring everyone else then I expect we'd have left by now.

And how much did Corbyn offer to assist during that 3 years? Would rather continue to be the opposition that work together because of party politics and missed a huge opportunity to improve the public view of Labour.

 

[Beezerk]

Corbyn's a full blown Brexiteer. If May had engaged with him from the start instead of spending 3 years ignoring everyone else then I expect we'd have left by now.

Strange that, as soon as some polls started showing Remain would win another referendum I'm sure he/Labour stated they would vote against any TM deal brought to the house.

 

[Hacker Khan]

And how much did Corbyn offer to assist during that 3 years? Would rather continue to be the opposition that work together because of party politics and missed a huge opportunity to improve the public view of Labour.

Yes, I'm sure all the the Tory voting Brexiters on here would have been climbing over each other to sing his praises.

As has been said a million times, he's made a hash of Brexit with his lack of clarity and that has cost him. But as also been said a million times he is not in government, so it's not his job to ensure a process very much associated with the Tory party, that was created to appease the more hard right of said party, gets enacted. Yet again the theme of it always being someone else's fault emerges, the EU, Labour, [insert scapegoat here]....

 

[Lord Tyrion]

And how much did Corbyn offer to assist during that 3 years? Would rather continue to be the opposition that work together because of party politics and missed a huge opportunity to improve the public view of Labour.

May had no interest in listening to anyone until her deal was rejected for a 3rd time. She wouldn't listen to people in her own party, never mind Labour. UK politics, sadly, does not lend itself to consensus politics but this was one time when it could have been an option. TM had no interest in that.

Corbyn is a disaster, imo, but the fault for this is not with him.

 

[ColchesterFC]

Yes, I'm sure all the the Tory voting Brexiters on here would have been climbing over each other to sing his praises.

As has been said a million times, he's made a hash of Brexit with his lack of clarity and that has cost him. But as also been said a million times he is not in government, so it's not his job to ensure a process very much associated with the Tory party, that was created to appease the more hard right of said party, gets enacted. Yet again the theme of it always being someone else's fault emerges, the EU, Labour, [insert scapegoat here]....

Only Brexit? I can't think of anything that he hasn't made a hash of. Labour should have been ripping the government apart every week in the HoC for their completely inept performance, and taking a huge lead in the opinion polls, but they've barely managed to land a single blow.

 

[Hacker Khan]

Only Brexit? I can't think of anything that he hasn't made a hash of. Labour should have been ripping the government apart every week in the HoC for their completely inept performance, and taking a huge lead in the opinion polls, but they've barely managed to land a single blow.

I'd argue some of their policies make sense to me anyway, but I'd agree they have been pretty inept coupled with a cult of personality following on social media that can not see Corbyn doing any wrong. Which makes the suggestion that they have the wit and wisdom to frustrate the Brexit process even more laughable.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Only Brexit? I can't think of anything that he hasn't made a hash of. Labour should have been ripping the government apart every week in the HoC for their completely inept performance, and taking a huge lead in the opinion polls, but they've barely managed to land a single blow.

I’d suggest you look at the last GE and his record in getting votes for Labour.
TM called a GE when there was no need and is only power due to buying off the DUP.
Shouldn’t we be more annoyed at having an inept Government rather than poke JC.
He’s used almost as an excuse for the Government to be inept!

 

[ColchesterFC]

I’d suggest you look at the last GE and his record in getting votes for Labour.
TM called a GE when there was no need and is only power due to buying off the DUP.
Shouldn’t we be more annoyed at having an inept Government rather than poke JC.
He’s used almost as an excuse for the Government to be inept!

Do you mean the last GE when Labour, led by the fantastic Jeremy Corbyn, lost to what we both seem to agree is a thoroughly inept and useless Conservative government? Well let's give him a big round of applause for being so great that he lost an election to what I consider to be one of the poorest governments we've ever had. You're becoming a forum version of the 3 wise monkeys when it comes to Labour and Corbyn.

And to be clear, there is no excuse for how inept the government is and has been but any kind of half decent opposition would have held them to account and ripped them apart by now and yet your hero Jeremy has failed to do so. As has been previously said you really need to take off your blinkers. I quoted a post about Corbyn and replied to that and yet you go on the defensive and say I shouldn't have had a poke at him and should be more annoyed by the government. The same government who I also had a poke at and described as "completely inept".

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Do you mean the last GE when Labour, led by the fantastic Jeremy Corbyn, lost to what we both seem to agree is a thoroughly inept and useless Conservative government? Well let's give him a big round of applause for being so great that he lost an election to what I consider to be one of the poorest governments we've ever had. You're becoming a forum version of the 3 wise monkeys when it comes to Labour and Corbyn.

And to be clear, there is no excuse for how inept the government is and has been but any kind of half decent opposition would have held them to account and ripped them apart by now and yet your hero Jeremy has failed to do so. As has been previously said you really need to take off your blinkers. I quoted a post about Corbyn and replied to that and yet you go on the defensive and say I shouldn't have had a poke at him and should be more annoyed by the government. The same government who I also had a poke at and described as "completely inept".

Have a look at this and many other threads and everytime the tories are criticised we get the old, “could be worse, we could have corbyn” or “did abbott do the maths” etc, always deflection on to a poor opposition or a poor leader etc.
I don’t care about the opposition and how good or bad they are, it’s the people in those positions of power we should be focussing on.
Look at the above he lost a GE to a poor Government, they weren’t that poor at the time, DC had only been in power a few years.

Few facts from his supposed poor GE result.

Having begun the campaign 20 points behind in the polls, he has won an astonishing 40% of the votes. That is the largest increase in the share of the vote by a Labour leader since Clement Attlee in 1945.

Corbyn won 30 more seats for his party than Ed Miliband got in the previous GE. He has deprived Theresa May of her majority. He has won seats in southern England such as Canterbury and Plymouth that for years had been Labour no-go areas.

Please don’t describe him as my hero, I will defend the bias as I see it on here, but have absolutely no time for him as a man.

 

[ColchesterFC]

I thought we were talking about the last GE? So why is DC mentioned? Corbyn/Labour lost the last GE with May as PM. He lost an election against arguably the worst PM we've ever had as leader of one of the worst governments we've ever had. In my book that isn't a success. It's not sports day at a special school where everyone gets a prize. The guy and his party are a shambles. The only real question is which of the two biggest parties are the bigger shambles and to answer that you might as well toss a coin.

 

[Taz]

In other news today... Change UK elects Anna Soubry as their new leader - Luciana Berger, Chuka Umuna, Sarah Wollaston are not on the official list of their MP s any more
Neither are Gavin Shuker, Joan Ryan and Angela Smith - not clear if they are all going to join the Lib Dems, sit as independents or do something else altogether - what is clear is the group has found it v hard to make the kind of impact they'd hoped for at the start

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I thought we were talking about the last GE? So why is DC mentioned? Corbyn/Labour lost the last GE with May as PM. He lost an election against arguably the worst PM we've ever had as leader of one of the worst governments we've ever had. In my book that isn't a success. It's not sports day at a special school where everyone gets a prize. The guy and his party are a shambles. The only real question is which of the two biggest parties are the bigger shambles and to answer that you might as well toss a coin.

You do realise TM had only been PM 9 months when she called the last GE, so in 9 months you decided she was arguably the worst PM we’ve ever had?
It was the first GE he’d fought after becoming Labour Leader helped by all those tories pissing themselves when they joined the Labour Party to vote for him.
Is he a waste of space? yes, imo,
Do I wish Labour had someone else? Yes.
Is it his or Labour’s fault TM or the tory party are inept? No, absolutely not.

 

[Hobbit]

In other news today... Change UK elects Anna Soubry as their new leader - Luciana Berger, Chuka Umuna, Sarah Wollaston are not on the official list of their MP s any more
Neither are Gavin Shuker, Joan Ryan and Angela Smith - not clear if they are all going to join the Lib Dems, sit as independents or do something else altogether - what is clear is the group has found it v hard to make the kind of impact they'd hoped for at the start

They just don't seem to get the message that they are part of the problem, not the solution. They jumped ship(s) from parties that were making a horlicks of things, thinking they themselves were shining knights on white chargers. The electorate told them exactly what they think of them in the EU elections. You'd hope that having been sent that message they would ask the electorate via a by-election to endorse their mandate, they not now being in a party whose mandate the electorate will have considered when originally electing them.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news...ump-begins-second-day-of-state-visit-11734422

NHS part of a trade deal ?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

In other news today... Change UK elects Anna Soubry as their new leader - Luciana Berger, Chuka Umuna, Sarah Wollaston are not on the official list of their MP s any more
Neither are Gavin Shuker, Joan Ryan and Angela Smith - not clear if they are all going to join the Lib Dems, sit as independents or do something else altogether - what is clear is the group has found it v hard to make the kind of impact they'd hoped for at the start

I have been told the Change UK splinter group will be called The Real Change UK Party.