Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[Hacker Khan]

I don't think it will swing many. She goes on about her Welshness but doesn't have a Welsh accent, she has this annoying theme to her lecture that insinuated the people who voted Leave didn't understand the issues, she then goes on to suggest every thing in the town that has improved since the nasty Tories closed down the pits is due to the generosity of the EU.

She seems unaware that the so called EU funding for those projects has to be part funded by UK government and the rest comes out of the huge amount we pay into the EU coffers.

She does her kinsmen down by suggesting they cannot see beyond the Daily Mail headlines and only the likes of journalists like her can see through their racisit and blinkered views.

I guess she is probably a card carrying member of Remain and incapable of seeing any other view point.

Maybe she should take up golf 😉

Would you have believed the points more if Nessa from Gavin and Stacy had presented it instead of a highly respected and award winning investigative journalist?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Would you have believed the points more if Nessa from Gavin and Stacy had presented it instead of a highly respected and award winning investigative journalist?

Highly respected by the Left but generally felt by many others to have a rather limited agenda.

Certainly difficult to see much of her work as objective.

It is, however, difficult to see what is the relevance of her accent.

 

[SocketRocket]

Would you have believed the points more if Nessa from Gavin and Stacy had presented it instead of a highly respected and award winning investigative journalist?

Is that all you have in a return discussion: Sarcasm ?
I made the point due to her going on about her Welshness and her being amazed at how Welsh people can be so stupid and racist to vote for Brexit. How does being Welsh give her a special insight.

 

[SocketRocket]

The irony of this post...

Is it ironic due to me being a supporter of leaving the EU? If that's the case this thread just as well be closed down now if we cant pass comment on a link someone has posted without someone making juvenile digs. Why don't you argue a case instead of throwing sticks, I am not a journalist standing on a stage making accusations of racism and stupidity about people who voted differently, actually I dont make any accusations against Remainers, I just constantly duck blows from their direction.

 

[woody69]

Is it ironic due to me being a supporter of leaving the EU? If that's the case this thread just as well be closed down now if we cant pass comment on a link someone has posted without someone making juvenile digs. Why don't you argue a case instead of throwing sticks, I am not a journalist standing on a stage making accusations of racism and stupidity about people who voted differently, actually I dont make any accusations against Remainers, I just constantly duck blows from their direction.

No, it's ironic because your said

incapable of seeing any other view point

I'm happy to be corrected, but I don't believe you have ever conceded to any alternative view from leaving the EU or benefit being in the union brings to Britain.

 

[SocketRocket]

No, it's ironic because your said

I'm happy to be corrected, but I don't believe you have ever conceded to any alternative view from leaving the EU or benefit being in the union brings to Britain.

Thats because I think the EU is bad for the UK and we can create a better country outside it. However, I do not stand on a stage accusing people who voted Remain of being stupid or racist, I accept that those who voted to remain are entitled to their opinion and voted in good faith for what they considered best. I do defend my view when its questioned or indeed attacked but I do not deal in this myself, as much as it may surprise you and some others.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

No, it's ironic because your said

I'm happy to be corrected, but I don't believe you have ever conceded to any alternative view from leaving the EU or benefit being in the union brings to Britain.

But does that not illustrate the complete futility of this thread.

I don't think anyone has changed their stance as a result of alternative opinions offered by fellow forumers.

For nearly three years now the discussion has been dominated by committed, or dogmatic, Remainers and Leavers.

Perhaps I am wrong and someone will come forward to say that they have changed due to this thread but, so far, I have seen nothing to suggest this may be the case.

 

[Hobbit]

But does that not illustrate the complete futility of this thread.

I don't think anyone has changed their stance as a result of alternative opinions offered by fellow forumers.

For nearly three years now the discussion has been dominated by committed, or dogmatic, Remainers and Leavers.

Perhaps I am wrong and someone will come forward to say that they have changed due to this thread but, so far, I have seen nothing to suggest this may be the case.

Its difficult to gauge from the polls too. In the run up to the vote, Remain was leading. The week after the vote, Remain was still leading comfortably. Leave didn't lead in the polls till Oct '16, through to July '17. And Leave led briefly around March '18.

Bizarrely, for all the "people are better informed now," the don't knows are on exactly the same number, having barely changed in the last 3 years. But we should have another vote because we're better informed sounds like a smokescreen when you look at the polling.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Its difficult to gauge from the polls too. In the run up to the vote, Remain was leading. The week after the vote, Remain was still leading comfortably. Leave didn't lead in the polls till Oct '16, through to July '17. And Leave led briefly around March '18.

Bizarrely, for all the "people are better informed now," the don't knows are on exactly the same number, having barely changed in the last 3 years. But we should have another vote because we're better informed sounds like a smokescreen when you look at the polling.

Exactly!

And if we have another vote it seems reasonable to assume that the result is likely to be just as close as the original.

In which case why should we believe that the outcome will be better accepted than before.

 

[drdel]

But does that not illustrate the complete futility of this thread.

I don't think anyone has changed their stance as a result of alternative opinions offered by fellow forumers.

For nearly three years now the discussion has been dominated by committed, or dogmatic, Remainers and Leavers.

Perhaps I am wrong and someone will come forward to say that they have changed due to this thread but, so far, I have seen nothing to suggest this may be the case.

Pretty balanced and reflective of society then !

If you expect a discussion on Golf Forum to modify peoples' opinions you'll be forever disappointed and need to recognise what's really important - relax 'Live and let live'

IMO this is a place for simple amusement and the exchange of views made interesting by the differences between one person and another - if some are more informed than others: so what?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Pretty balanced and reflective of society then !

If you expect a discussion on Golf Forum to modify peoples' opinions you'll be forever disappointed and need to recognise what's really important - relax 'Live and let live'

IMO this is a place for simple amusement and the exchange of views made interesting by the differences between one person and another - if some are more informed than others: so what?

But is it too much to expect the debate or discussion to be conducted in something at least approaching an adult manner.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I suppose we will get the usual response from the guys/gals who still think the leave/stay vote on a second referendum is too close to call.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/euref2-poll-of-polls/

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I suppose we will get the usual response from the guys/gals who still think the leave/stay vote on a second referendum is too close to call.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/euref2-poll-of-polls/

But what did the polls show prior to the original referendum in 2016?

In any event my point stands. If this 54 : 46 was the result it is not really any more conclusive than 52 : 48 the other way.

Therein lies the problem. Half the country are happy to remain within the EU and the other half wants out.

Three years after the question was first posed nothing has changed!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

But what did the polls show prior to the original referendum in 2016?

In any event my point stands. If this 54 : 46 was the result it is not really any more conclusive than 52 : 48 the other way.

Therein lies the problem. Half the country are happy to remain within the EU and the other half wants out.

Three years after the question was first posed nothing has changed!

I agree with you that 54-46 in a referendum is not conclusive.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I agree with you that 54-46 in a referendum is not conclusive.

That was (one of) the problem(s) of the original referendum.

If at least 60per cent had voted Remain then the question should not be asked again for at least 15 or 20 years.

Similarly to Leave should have required at least the same majority.

Trouble is it's too late now.

 

[MegaSteve]

The only polls that matter are the ones that require getting up from a comfy sofa and taking a trip down the road even on a wet day...

 

[Deleted member 18121]

A couple of musings from some articles I've stumbled across over the last couple of days.

The Brexit party have some pretty "decent" candidates now that should appeal to a broad range of voters, Ann Widdecombe being the latest addition today. I'm very interested to see how the party progress.

Also I've been reading on the multi million pound EU grants the BBC have received for many years now, along with £141m of "soft loans" - which goes to explain the BBC stance and bias shown in recent years. (Sources for these reports are The Times and The Telegraph).

 

[Hacker Khan]

A couple of musings from some articles I've stumbled across over the last couple of days.

The Brexit party have some pretty "decent" candidates now that should appeal to a broad range of voters, Ann Widdecombe being the latest addition today. I'm very interested to see how the party progress.

Also I've been reading on the multi million pound EU grants the BBC have received for many years now, along with £141m of "soft loans" - which goes to explain the BBC stance and bias shown in recent years. (Sources for these reports are The Times and The Telegraph).

Yes, I'm sure the 'comedy useless dancer of the type that Anton always gets in Strictly' is a great addition to our political landscape at the moment.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Yes, I'm sure the 'comedy useless dancer of the type that Anton always gets in Strictly' is a great addition to our political landscape at the moment.

View attachment 27153

I wonder if we would have seen this type of comment had Ms Widdecombe announced that she was joining the Independent Group?

 

[Blue in Munich]

I wonder if we would have seen this type of comment had Ms Widdecombe announced that she was joining the Independent Group?

You don’t wonder at all, you know the answer to that one.