Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[bluewolf]

I'd say the mess the UK is in is down to the way the Tory party has conducted itself since the vote. However, I do lay some of the blame for Remain losing on the lies from George Osbourne et al. His claims of 800,000 unemployed straight after the vote and households losing £4200 in the first year after the vote were proven to be lies. When his own Treasury dept and a Commons Select committee called him out for lying... Once he was proven to have lied those on the fence probably wondered why he needed to lie. Was he hiding how good Leave might be?

Rather than bad mouth Leave, which did get people's backs up, why didn't Remain put out a list of EU achievements?

No one is arguing about why they lost. Only about the expectation the Public had once the vote was won. They/we expected what the "experts" told us would happen. If they'd campaigned truthfully, told us that the only sure way to Leave was with No Deal then they may still have won, and we'd have spent the last 2+ years preparing ourselves for our exit. We'd have been ready for it.

 

[SocketRocket]

Is it not about 30 something % of the country that actually voted to leave - so to say “ country is mainly leave vote public “ is not really correct is it

And as for the reason why people voted leave - surely you can’t state what other people’s reasons are - only state what yours were and any other that have stated their reasons. Already been seen that people did vote because of the message on that bus - so again you can’t state “we” - only “you”
👍

30% of the population? What's that got to do with anything, its flawed information and exactly what politicans were doing. How do you know the voting intentions of people that never voted. The referendum was the biggest turn out for a national vote ever!

Regarding my comments on what other peoples views were, I used that comment to counter what someone else posted with regard to Leave voters. Was that poster also wrong and if so why are you not commenting on that post. Please understand the conversation before jumping in.

 

[Jamesbrown]

Massively .. if the remain campaign hadn’t banged on about project fear I think they would have won. This country is brilliant at going against the grain just to be stubborn and be like “can’t tell us what’s best”

Project fear will have pushed voters into protest votes and encouraged more people to vote against it who may not have even voted

Besides my personal opinions. When that leaflet came through my door about the referendum. I immediately thought if the government want me to vote to stay, then staying can’t be a good thing.

 

[SocketRocket]

Sorry Bri, but IMO it's nonsense.
And you have absolutely no idea what the current state of mind is in the general public. None of us do. The polls suggest you're wrong but they are an average indicator at best.

OK, in that case I wont discuss this further with you.

 

[Hobbit]

Is it not about 30 something % of the country that actually voted to leave - so to say “ country is mainly leave vote public “ is not really correct is it

And as for the reason why people voted leave - surely you can’t state what other people’s reasons are - only state what yours were and any other that have stated their reasons. Already been seen that people did vote because of the message on that bus - so again you can’t state “we” - only “you”
👍

Jeez H!! do we have to do that stupid spin on numbers again, again, again....surely we're more grown up and informed now and understand just how stupid that looks. Please don't go down the route Hogie did by including newborn babies in that number, which is basically what you have done. No pun intended but its so infantile.

Who was it that made the case a week or so back on us being more informed(PHIL)?

 

[Deleted member 21784]

OK, in that case I wont discuss this further with you.

Fingers in your ears again? (Or more covering your eyes) must be great in your edited world were you see no one disagreeing with you.

 

[bluewolf]

OK, in that case I wont discuss this further with you.

That's your choice of course 👍

 

[Deleted member 16999]

OK, in that case I wont discuss this further with you.

You’re running out of people to have a discussion with!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

30% of the people? What's that got to do with anything, its flawed information and exactly what politicans were doing. How do you know the voting intentions of people that never voted. The referendum was the biggest turn out for a national vote ever!

I don’t know how they would have voted just as much as you don’t - doesn’t matter if it was the biggest - it still wasn’t 100% - it was 72% that voted.

17 mil of 40 mil UK nationals voted to leave the EU

So you can’t state that we are a mainly leave voting public when it’s not factually correct - surely it’s just best to deal with facts

Regarding my views on what other peoples views were, I used that comment to counter what someone else posted with regard to Leave voters. Was that poster also wrong and if so why are you not commenting on that post. Please understand the conversation before jumping in.

You have jumped in many times on people’s generic comments - you used to do it regularly to Hogan and plenty times telling people not to speak for others

You are as guilty as others in regards generic statements when it’s just your opinion and not that of others. Same goes with anyone - I won’t suggest why others voted to stay in the EU because I don’t know , I only know how I voted.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Jeez H!! do we have to do that stupid spin on numbers again, again, again....surely we're more grown up and informed now and understand just how stupid that looks. Please don't go down the route Hogie did by including newborn babies in that number, which is basically what you have done. No pun intended but its so infantile.

Who was it that made the case a week or so back on us being more informed(PHIL)?

72 % of the “voting”’public voted in the referendum so it’s not right to post statements that we are in a mainly leave voting public . When it’s not factually correct surely ?

The majority of the voting public didn’t vote to leave - the majority of people who did vote voted to leave - subtle difference is it not ?😉

And nothing about newborn babies. 😀

 

[Dando]

Jeez H!! do we have to do that stupid spin on numbers again, again, again....surely we're more grown up and informed now and understand just how stupid that looks. Please don't go down the route Hogie did by including newborn babies in that number, which is basically what you have done. No pun intended but its so infantile.

Who was it that made the case a week or so back on us being more informed(PHIL)?

I’m sure someone will be along soon and mention the bus again

 

[SocketRocket]

I don’t know how they would have voted just as much as you don’t - doesn’t matter if it was the biggest - it still wasn’t 100% - it was 72% that voted.

17 mil of 40 mil UK nationals voted to leave the EU

So you can’t state that we are a mainly leave voting public when it’s not factually correct - surely it’s just best to deal with facts



You have jumped in many times on people’s generic comments - you used to do it regularly to Hogan and plenty times telling people not to speak for others

You are as guilty as others in regards generic statements when it’s just your opinion and not that of others. Same goes with anyone - I won’t suggest why others voted to stay in the EU because I don’t know , I only know how I voted.

Sorry but your thinking is flawed. Its pointless to prevaricate over the voting intentions of non voters or those not entitled. Its not me making a point about these people, its you.

I am also unclear why you are going on about generic comments, I would suggest thats exactly what you are posting here.

I am not interested in your attempt to create an argument, I am aware of why you are doing it but as far as I'm concerned this matter is finished with you as you are adding nothing constructive.

 

[Hobbit]

72 % of the “voting”’public voted in the referendum so it’s not right to post statements that we are in a mainly leave voting public . When it’s not factually correct surely ?

The majority of the voting public didn’t vote to leave - the majority of people who did vote voted to leave - subtle difference is it not ?

And nothing about newborn babies.

Spin it whichever way you want, the reality is more people voted Leave than Remain. What the political position is of the rest is pure speculation on your part to try and weight a flawed argument. Is that really an intelligent argument on your part... that most people didn't vote Leave... Think about it. Most people didn't vote Tory. You could go on and on with stupid arguments like that. I genuinely can't believe that you're raising a point like this... its... its just thick.

 

[SocketRocket]

You’re running out of people to have a discussion with!

Maybe, if that's how it pans out. But its only for the current thread in discussion. 👍

 

[Deleted member 18121]

I wonder how different things would be now if the last 2.5 years worth of time and energy has been put into making the vote to leave a success, rather than fighting it tooth and nail to the very end.

For me that is where the fault lays. Starting from the very top to the very "bottom", we've done our best to shoot ourselves in the foot.

 

[BubbaP]

72 % of the “voting”’public voted in the referendum so it’s not right to post statements that we are in a mainly leave voting public . When it’s not factually correct surely ?

The majority of the voting public didn’t vote to leave - the majority of people who did vote voted to leave - subtle difference is it not ?😉

And nothing about newborn babies. 😀

I'll just comment the language.
I think if you had used something like "people eliable to vote ", then you would have a decent point.
English is often about context, you have interpreted one way. One could equally counter that "voting public" referred to those who actually voted (with the referendum being a topic on this thread).
All about interpretation.

 

[SocketRocket]

That's your choice of course 👍

Of course 👍

 

[bluewolf]

I wonder how different things would be now if the last 2.5 years worth of time and energy has been put into making the vote to leave a success, rather than fighting it tooth and nail to the very end.

For me that is where the fault lays. Starting from the very top to the very "bottom", we've done our best to shoot ourselves in the foot.

Which would've happened if we'd decided what Brexit looked like before invoking Art 50.

 

[Mudball]

To break the narrative that Leavers are thick Rs.. this shows they are technical too..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1112637637582602241

 

[Old Skier]

To break the narrative that Leavers are thick Rs.. this shows they are technical too..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1112637637582602241

Obviously not or they would have known.