Brexit - or Article 50: the Phoenix!

[SocketRocket]

Balderdash! Utter Twaddle! It's you who is 'playing stupid pedantic games trying to wheedle your way out of a factual blunder'!

You simply cannot admit you've been caught getting your facts wrong can you! You weren't using that Deficit vs Surplus argument earlier, even when supplying the link!

And to answer your question - that you should (and I suspect do) know the answer to anyway.... Value of Trade is 'Value of Exports + Value of Imports'! The Credit/Debit 'values' that you seem to be posting about is the 'Balance of Trade Value'!

I'm not interested in any further comms on this sub-topic though!

Thank God for that. I have been expressing a view, you as normal.jump in throwing playground insults around like a silly school kid. Make an opinion by all means but drop the pathetic name calling.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I see a few hundred pro brexiters have descended on Westminster. Soon to be addressed by Tommy Robinson....

The man is a stain on this Country.

 

[Tashyboy]

Whilst I am very much in the Leave camp, and with no deal if need be, the unfortunate situation is that the EU very much want us to stay - the EU Commission for our money; some of the smaller member states for being 'the voice of reason' and 'influence' in trying to ensure fairness in all the decision making.

But given the absolute shambles our MPs have presided over, our 'influence' in Brussels IF we eventually stay in will basically be all gone.

Not one MS will view us with any credibility going forward; and the Commission will just ignore all our views and opinions in their march for even greater control. Basically we'll just be an ATM!

So let's just leave, get on with forging our own way as a global, outward looking nation.

I could not agree more with you, I have said from day one No deal looked the obvious choice and I have seen nothing to change my mind. However and this is my Major concern for the future. These elected MP clowns, are the very people that wil be negotiating for us in the future, and that puts the fear of God into me. It's not nationalism, but I think it's about time people started believing in what Britain can do, what Britain is capable of doing without the shackles of being in the EU.
Think this mess of the EU/ Brexit/ Remain has not even reached half time. ☹️

 

[Hacker Khan]

The man is a stain on this Country.

Trouble is he will use this seeming inability of parliament to leave the EU to forwards his political ideology now. People rightly are angry and him and his ilk will seize on this.

Think I've said before, whilst I think the time and resources we will need to commit to untangle ourselves from 40 years of alignment with the EU is an absolute waste and should be spent elsewhere, the social fracture this is currently and will increasingly cause could be even worse for us as a nation.

 

[Foxholer]

The EU council absolutely MUST kick us out with no deal, our elected are unable to do the job they are trusted to do. It MUST be taken out of their hands as they are unable to fulfill the result of the referendum.

Imo.

Whilst I am very much in the Leave camp, and with no deal if need be, the unfortunate situation is that the EU very much want us to stay - the EU Commission for our money; some of the smaller member states for being 'the voice of reason' and 'influence' in trying to ensure fairness in all the decision making.

But given the absolute shambles our MPs have presided over, our 'influence' in Brussels IF we eventually stay in will basically be all gone.

Not one MS will view us with any credibility going forward; and the Commission will just ignore all our views and opinions in their march for even greater control. Basically we'll just be an ATM!

So let's just leave, get on with forging our own way as a global, outward looking nation.

A cynic could easily suggest that May recognised that Parliament would act in exactly this (chaotic) way, which was why she had to be dragged 'kicking and sreaming' into 'Giving Control to Parliament'! But, while I'm certain there was a considerable element of this involved - she's not great at giving away control imo - this is precisely the great way (imo!) that UK style democracy (generally) works! Out of the chaos of 650+ disparate (occasionally desparate!) views there CAN come consensus! Of course, the system can be distorted - by whipping for example, or some more serious manipulation- and it can be long-winded, but provided there's acceptance of certain key issues, it works very well. It's when those key issues (like acceptance of the referendum result) cannot be accepted that conflict brings the, otherwise pretty smooth, process into some sort of disrepute. Of course, this tends to only happen on the, supposed, big issues!

I'm actually quite impressed with how well most folk who are in areas of responsibility, have acted in this issue! Unfortunately. that hasn't stopped some loons attempting to 'corrupt' the process!

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Trouble is he will use this seeming inability of parliament to leave the EU to forwards his political ideology now. People rightly are angry and him and his ilk will seize on this.

Think I've said before, whilst I think the time and resources we will need to commit to untangle ourselves from 40 years of alignment with the EU is an absolute waste and should be spent elsewhere, the social fracture this is currently and will increasingly cause could be even worse for us as a nation.

Anyone who listens and falls for his crap is an utter moron imo.

Unfortunately you are correct on your second paragraph.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I could not agree more with you, I have said from day one No deal looked the obvious choice and I have seen nothing to change my mind. However and this is my Major concern for the future. These elected MP clowns, are the very people that wil be negotiating for us in the future, and that puts the fear of God into me. It's not nationalism, but I think it's about time people started believing in what Britain can do, what Britain is capable of doing without the shackles of being in the EU.
Think this mess of the EU/ Brexit/ Remain has not even reached half time. ☹️

One may argue our current government and political classes who we seem to want to give more 'power' to are shackling us far more than the EU ever will. And believing otherwise to me won't do a great deal if we are faced with Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn as a choice at the ballot box.

 

[Dando]

Anyone who listens and falls for his crap is an utter moron imo.

Unfortunately you are correct on your second paragraph.

Are you talking about Corbyn in your first paragraph

 

[Hobbit]

I made my mind up based on what I want my country to be, I've not changed my mind on the only way I can see it being achieved. You may be surprised that I have no problem with others having a different view or changing their minds. All I expect of people is they are honest with their intentions. I am sick to the back teeth of the weasel words and outright lies so many use to disguise their real intentions. I'm also tired of having to defend my beliefs, it seems the way it goes is Remainers trawl the Internet for any morsel to try and discredit leavers or leaving, The Leaver then has to respond with reasons to justify their decision, it then becomes s mud slinging fight that no one wins. And before anyone jumps in I am as bad as anyone in returning insults. How on earth did a country like this become so broken.

Because there's too many Leavers!

Sorry SR, I'm just being facetious for a bit of fun.

 

[Foxholer]

Thank God for that. I have been expressing a view, you as normal.jump in throwing playground insults around like a silly school kid. Make an opinion by all means but drop the pathetic name calling.

Balderdash!

 

[IanM]

We used to have politicians who, even if you disliked their ideologies/policies, you could respect their integrity.

Now. Goodness me

And, I also laugh at the "oh my , why are we so divided" brigade. We've always been hugely anti EU Federalism as a country. It has just been ignored for decades. We only got a Referendum as some nerks in Whitehall incorrectly advised Cameron he would win!!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It’s not over yet, both sides can then be judged, one minor point, they managed to get 27 different Countries to agree the deal.

Not really surprising when it is largely in their favour. I agree with your first point, nothing is done yet.

 

[Dando]

We used to have politicians who, even if you disliked their ideologies/policies, you could respect their integrity.

Now. Goodness me

And, I also laugh at the "oh my , why are we so divided" brigade. We've always been hugely anti EU Federalism as a country. It has just been ignored for decades. We only got a Referendum as some nerks in Whitehall incorrectly advised Cameron he would win!!

They clearly had no idea how many coffin dodging, racist, swivel eyed loons were uk residents 😉

 

[IanM]

If you think wanting to get out of the EU is racist, theyve really got you , havent they?

Any other countries you think should pay vast sums of money to be governed by someone else? Maybe the Aussies would be under Japan, or Brazil governed by Peru?
Might be a laugh eh?

 

[Foxholer]

We used to have politicians who, even if you disliked their ideologies/policies, you could respect their integrity.

Now. Goodness me

And, I also laugh at the "oh my , why are we so divided" brigade. We've always been hugely anti EU Federalism as a country. It has just been ignored for decades. We only got a Referendum as some nerks in Whitehall incorrectly advised Cameron he would win!!

I believe we still do - at least quite a few! Ken Clarke and Dame Margaret Beckett are 2. May herself is probably another and I'm also a fan of Yvette Cooper (dubious choice of husband though?). And Rees-Mogg's 'integrity' is fine with me - though easily questioned too! My electorate's MP (Hammond) is another 'honest worker' too!

Can't stand Boris though, nor Gove! And Corbyn is too overtly creepy, but, perhaps unfortunately, unelectable while his predecessor (both demonstrating the 'power' of cliques within Labour was simply - somehow Old Testament-ishly - the wrong brother!) sits quietly 'wasting time' on the very back benches

 

[Doon frae Troon]

If you think wanting to get out of the EU is racist, theyve really got you , havent they?

Any other countries you think should pay vast sums of money to be governed by someone else? Maybe the Aussies would be under Japan, or Brazil governed by Peru?
Might be a laugh eh?

OOOOOOOOOO so tempting but I shall refrain.

 

[Deleted member 18645]

They clearly had no idea how many coffin dodging, racist, swivel eyed loons were uk residents 😉

And the majority had no idea how petulant and toddler-tantrum throwing the losing side would be just because they lost.

 

[Foxholer]

OOOOOOOOOO so tempting but I shall refrain.

Phew!

 

[drdel]

So Sean O'Grady writing in the Independent suggests 3 options in a new 'vote' - 1. Remain, 2. Leave with 'soft' Brexit or 3. Leave on WTO terms.

In his wisdom he seems to have forgotten asking 40mill people to select one of 3 will not yield a majority because of statistical normalisation. His options have 2 'leaving' possibilities which probability suggest would have a combined vote ahead of Remain. As a Remain supporter he is obviously hoping to split the Leave camp so that Remain achieves a higher score.

Not only have we got the MPs screwing up the logic but the media are demonstrating boundless stupidity as well. This dog's breakfast is just getting more and more ridiculous by the minute.

 

[drdel]

Because there's too many Leavers!

Sorry SR, I'm just being facetious for a bit of fun.

Good grief man you can't have fun on here as you'll upset someone; this is serious 'putting the world to right' stuff , you've obviously been in the sun too long !